Thinking of the M10-P - has Leica reached its climax?

[ShivaYash]

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Dear all,

I am thinking of getting the M10-P - not because I need another camera, but because I've been made an offer I almost cannot refuse. I won't bore you with the details.

The question I have is simple, is the M10-P the final product? I mean what else can they [Leica] do to improve it? Other than cram a 47 megapixel sensor in for the next model? I mainly use film cameras but have my trusty M8 - from new and more recently the M-E. I have never fallen in love with the latter so am looking to pass it on soon. 

But back to the M10-P - will I using it in ten years time, like I use my M8 now?

For those interested, I am minded to get the chrome M10-P. I have only black lenses and then a chrome body + black lens looks good. I mainly shoot with either a 35 or 50. 

Thanks,

Edited May 9, 2019 by ShivaYash

[PaulJohn]

How important is the visoflex to you?

If they could make an EVF switchable in the viewfinder like fujifilm x100 would you want that?

[WvE]

I have no doubt that the M10-P will be still be a great tool to make good photographs in ten years from now (save for any defects of course). However, technology will move on so I doubt that the M has reached its limits, certainly not sensor wise.    

[mike3996]

There are certainly a plenty of small things to improve over. Will you need the new things to take killer photographs? Hah -- absolutely not. But every little bit helps to add to the convenience. Consider for example the much-rumored-about new 47 MP Panasonic sensor. The extra pixels may mean nothing but the new base ISO of 50 -- an improvement of 2 stops -- should help Summilux shooters use their lenses in daylight without having to play with ND filters that much. Maybe throw in an electronic shutter and you could shoot Noctilux portraits in any sunlight you could imagine. Convenience, baby. Convenience!

[trickness]

Considering that the rangefinder has been updated by Leica continuously since 1932, one could reliably say that the M will never reach a “climax”  but will continue to be refined according to technology and user needs. At this point, megapixels are a really trivial concern.

Edited May 9, 2019 by trickness

[Guest Nowhereman]

Maybe you'd be better off to think that the M3 was the "final product" — and that 1989 was the "end of history".

[ShivaYash]

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Thanks for all the replies - I mainly shoot film these days but am considering the M10-P only because an offer has been made to me. 

Personally I don't have any need for the EVF - I have the Fujifilm X100 and it is a great tool, I use it a lot.

What are the main negative points of the M10-P?

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, ShivaYash said:

Thanks for all the replies - I mainly shoot film these days but am considering the M10-P only because an offer has been made to me. 

Personally I don't have any need for the EVF - I have the Fujifilm X100 and it is a great tool, I use it a lot.

What are the main negative points of the M10-P?

Way to subjective a question. For a digital M, there aren’t any negative points, in my subjective opinion. The camera is phenomenal top to bottom  

The only “negatives” if these are of value to you that I can think of are:

1.No video 

2. Rangefinder can go out of adjustment 

3. Attachable EVF is just ok 

everything else you know what you are getting into with a Leica M digital.

 

[Peter Kilmister]

The battery is smaller than the type used for the M240 so it needs recharging more often. That is the only negative ... and a very minor one.

[35photo]

On 5/9/2019 at 8:55 AM, ShivaYash said:

Thanks for all the replies - I mainly shoot film these days but am considering the M10-P only because an offer has been made to me. 

Personally I don't have any need for the EVF - I have the Fujifilm X100 and it is a great tool, I use it a lot.

What are the main negative points of the M10-P?

NONE... buy it.... stop thinking about seriously

[LBJ2]

On 5/9/2019 at 2:39 AM, ShivaYash said:

Dear all,

I am thinking of getting the M10-P - not because I need another camera, but because I've been made an offer I almost cannot refuse. I won't bore you with the details.

The question I have is simple, is the M10-P the final product? I mean what else can they [Leica] do to improve it? Other than cram a 47 megapixel sensor in for the next model? I mainly use film cameras but have my trusty M8 - from new and more recently the M-E. I have never fallen in love with the latter so am looking to pass it on soon. 

But back to the M10-P - will I using it in ten years time, like I use my M8 now?

For those interested, I am minded to get the chrome M10-P. I have only black lenses and then a chrome body + black lens looks good. I mainly shoot with either a 35 or 50. 

Thanks,

 

3 hours ago, 35photo said:

NONE... buy it.... stop thinking about seriously

I'm with him. Buy it. Probably easy to sell if it doesn't work out for you. 

[lucerne]

The M10 is an excellent iteration of the M range but it won’t be the Last of the M series.  If you add the M10 to your kit you’ll need to factor in the fact that your M8 has a crop factor meaning that your 35 and 50mm lenses will not give you the same view that you are familiar with on your M8.  However, they are the standard focal lengths for the full frame M10.

The price you pay should reflect any disadvantage it holds, but to current owners there are few if any backward features, and many that take you forward.

10 years is a long time in technological terms, and the M10 is already two years into its product life cycle, so ask yourself if you will be happy with 12 year old technology .

who knows what the future of photographic technology will deliver.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by lucerne

[Peter Kilmister]

Until the M10 had the M10-P version I saw no reason to buy one. As soon as I tested the M10-P I knew it was special and the wallet came out. Realising that the M10-P is the swan song of the M10 doesn't matter. It is just what I wanted. No doubt a different version will arrive soon. That's life!

[a.noctilux]

I wonder which comes next , M10-M , M10-D monochrom, or M11...

anyway, I'm "done" by now with my multiple M.

[Peter Kilmister]

As the M246 Monochrom is as good as it can ever get I suspect the M11 is already on the cards. My view could be wrong so please don't slag me off, it's just an opinion.

[budjames]

Go for it!. I purchased my first Leica, the M10, in November 2017. Since then, my Fuji X system has been gathering dust except when I need long zooms. My Leica with a Summilux 35 lens goes with my almost everywhere.

There will always be something new coming out so if the M10P suits your needs, buy it and enjoy it! 

My rational with Leica gear is "buy once, cry once!"

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[LBJ2]

As the M10 purchase a year ago was my first dance with Leica cameras, I didn't know about the multiple Leica camera iterations of the same base model approach, or I "might" have waited for the M10-P. If I were to do it all over again based on what's available today, the M10-P would be my choice for my one Leica camera system. As much as I like my M10, near silent shutter and the touch screen are very appealing upgrades IMO. But I don't want to give up the red dot ha ha. 

 

[RexGig0]

Sensor technology can be improved. A lower base ISO would be a worthy goal, as would improvement in dynamic range, and cleaner images at higher ISO settings. Battery technology can be improved. I doubt that the M10-P will be an evolutionary dead-end. I am not so sure that a high-megapixel sensor is desired, by a significant number of M buyers, and I am not one who is wishing for it. I have 50MP and 47MP DSLRs, and use them rarely, regarding them as specialized tools.

I am using a Type 246 Monochrome and an M10, though I actually bought the M10 first, being relatively new to the world of Leica. It would be nice to add an M10-P,  if I find that its shutter is substantially quieter, but I would not want to part with my present Leica cameras, so may not be adding another M-series body anytime soon. 

I see no reason why my present Leica cameras, or an M10-P, will not remain serviceable for substantially more than ten years, if Leica will continue to support them when such things as shutters require repair or replacement, and batteries remain available. I have functioning Canon DSLRs that are more than ten years old, having only needed replacement batteries. Until the shutters die, they remain viable. (Canon has stopped supporting my oldest DSLRs.)

Edited May 11, 2019 by RexGig0

[fknauf]

Personally, after being with this brand since the M8, I cannot confirm that history suggests that you could keep digital Leicas forever. The M8 had a problem with IR filters. My M9's sensor is corroding (yes, I can have it repaired for 1500 EUR, I know...). But you were asking for the M10-P, which is a different animal. Will Leica even exist in 10 years time? Nobody knows.

Your choice is more complex than you might think. If you frame it differently you might come to a different conclusion... So would you rather buy: 

a) M10-P or
b) Sony A7 III with M lens adapter for these great Leica glasses PLUS enough money to feed a child for a year (https://sharethemeal.org/) PLUS money for a photography seminar of choice?

Let me be clear: Both choices have the capacity for amazing photos. (Specific merits for Leica are the better wide angle performance for M lenses and the resale value. Specific merits for Sony: Low light performance, optional autofocus for M lenses, crazy choice of functions and cost)

Regardless of your choice, you will need to live with your decision and accept the possibility of buyer's remorse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer's_remorse).

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LBJ2]

I've not heard of any other camera/electronics manufacturers sensor suffering physical corrosion issues. We see reports of Oil or Banding but never anything where I would worry my sensor couldn't survive normal use for at least five years. The only real issue we face is the sensor technology march. Five years in recent mirrorless sensor tech evolution can create quite the gap in sensor capabilities and IQ.