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Upcoming M10X with 47MP?


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9 hours ago, dkmoore said:

Leica used a different sensor for the M10, which came after the Q and SL.

Leica may adopt a 47 Megapickle sensor for the M11 but no one knows if it will be the same Q2 sensor.

What makes you think the Q2 sensor doesn't have coverglass?

I’m not Sure but doesn’t the M240 have the same sensor though as Q and SL and same image processing? The m10 is one gen past SL though.   

I bet on new M to have the 47mp sensor as lots of the image processing work (software and hardware) is already created for the Q2 sensor.  It’s why the Maestro and Maestro II were in majority of Leica cameras.   Cause the work was done and sensors the same across the same gen.  Though the mount may be different, the sensor size is the same. 

Just makes basic sense for a small company to utilize its IP as much as possible if it’s still up to date.   Also, why wouldn’t they buy in bulk the 47 sensor and use it on the Q2, SL2 and new M?  

Why would you think the M would have a different high MP sensor?  Would Leica benefit by spending time and money creating software and hardware to accommodate many different sensors? 

I’m not sure why the Q2 would have a coverglass though?  It’s left off as the lens is fixed.  That’s one of the purposes of coverglass, to protect the sensor from contaminants and/or IR on some sensors.  

 

Edited by NRKstudio
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4 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

I’m not Sure but doesn’t the M240 have the same sensor though as Q and SL and same image processing? The m10 is one gen past SL though.   

If M240 and Q do share the sensor+processor they sure have tweaked Q's one so much you couldn't tell it. Q's base ISO is 100, its color science is different, the banding is much alleviated.

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5 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

I’m not Sure but doesn’t the M240 have the same sensor though as Q and SL and same image processing? The m10 is one gen past SL though.   

I bet on new M to have the 47mp sensor as lots of the image processing work (software and hardware) is already created for the Q2 sensor.  It’s why the Maestro and Maestro II were in majority of Leica cameras.   Cause the work was done and sensors the same across the same gen.  Though the mount may be different, the sensor size is the same. 

Just makes basic sense for a small company to utilize its IP as much as possible if it’s still up to date.   Also, why wouldn’t they buy in bulk the 47 sensor and use it on the Q2, SL2 and new M?  

Why would you think the M would have a different high MP sensor?  Would Leica benefit by spending time and money creating software and hardware to accommodate many different sensors? 

I’m not sure why the Q2 would have a coverglass though?  It’s left off as the lens is fixed.  That’s one of the purposes of coverglass, to protect the sensor from contaminants and/or IR on some sensors.  

 

AFAIK the only thing the SL, Q and M240 share is the pixel count. As they use third party sensors anyway and have to reformulate the design parameters for each application anyway it is logical to look for the best supplier each time they design a different camera. 

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8 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

I’m not Sure but doesn’t the M240 have the same sensor though as Q and SL and same image processing? The m10 is one gen past SL though.   

I bet on new M to have the 47mp sensor as lots of the image processing work (software and hardware) is already created for the Q2 sensor.  It’s why the Maestro and Maestro II were in majority of Leica cameras.   Cause the work was done and sensors the same across the same gen.  Though the mount may be different, the sensor size is the same. 

Just makes basic sense for a small company to utilize its IP as much as possible if it’s still up to date.   Also, why wouldn’t they buy in bulk the 47 sensor and use it on the Q2, SL2 and new M?  

Why would you think the M would have a different high MP sensor?  Would Leica benefit by spending time and money creating software and hardware to accommodate many different sensors? 

I’m not sure why the Q2 would have a coverglass though?  It’s left off as the lens is fixed.  That’s one of the purposes of coverglass, to protect the sensor from contaminants and/or IR on some sensors.  

 

All of this has been discussed ad nausea on this forum and elsewhere. We can assume how Leica conducts business all we want but it doesn’t mean we are right. And in this case, you are incorrect in many regards. 

And FWIW, I’m not convinced the next M will have a 47 mp sensor but who knows. Maybe a variant. 

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19 hours ago, mike3996 said:

If M240 and Q do share the sensor+processor they sure have tweaked Q's one so much you couldn't tell it. Q's base ISO is 100, its color science is different, the banding is much alleviated.

Hey I thought so too, but check out Sean Reid’s article “in search of native iso” he posits that it’s most likely 200 as native iso for the M240 and SL I believe.

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14 hours ago, dkmoore said:

All of this has been discussed ad nausea on this forum and elsewhere. We can assume how Leica conducts business all we want but it doesn’t mean we are right. And in this case, you are incorrect in many regards. 

They say you can learn something new everyday, at least I try to, e.g. the purpose of a coverglass.

You should read/watch any interviews with Leica’s last CEO Oliver Kaltner, he’s very open about their development strategy.  Their new CEO is pretty open too.  It’s not all smoke and mirrors in Weltzlar.  Def not any mirrors tho :).  

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1 hour ago, NRKstudio said:

Hey I thought so too, but check out Sean Reid’s article “in search of native iso” he posits that it’s most likely 200 as native iso for the M240 and SL I believe.

This has also been discussed before in some depth - can't point you to where, but it seems that each sensor in its own way if different.

The SL sensor's native ISO is 50; it takes a dip to 100; and then recovers from 200 on, tracking the normal way to high ISO deterioration (read - use in emergencies only).  The dip at ISO 100 is not great, but it is there.  From memory, it is at about the same level as ISO 640 ... but don't quote me.  I leave my ISO on my SL at 50, unless I really need to change it.

 

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18 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

They say you can learn something new everyday, at least I try to, e.g. the purpose of a coverglass.

You should read/watch any interviews with Leica’s last CEO Oliver Kaltner, he’s very open about their development strategy.  Their new CEO is pretty open too.  It’s not all smoke and mirrors in Weltzlar.  Def not any mirrors tho :).  

Huh? (Rhetorical)

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On 5/10/2019 at 8:43 PM, 6bit said:

47 MP M10X? Yes please. 

I would love to believe this rumor BUT it won't happen in the M10 series. The time to have done that would have been the M10-P. I dont see it in the M10-Monochrom either. Too small a niche for a whole new sensor. They couldn't even move the ISO dial to the back of the M10-D, too small a niche to recoup the cost of doing so. Leica will definitely have a 47mp M camera, just not an M10 variant - they are not under any pressure to do so and so they won't.

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8 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

I would love to believe this rumor BUT it won't happen in the M10 series. The time to have done that would have been the M10-P. I dont see it in the M10-Monochrom either. Too small a niche for a whole new sensor. They couldn't even move the ISO dial to the back of the M10-D, too small a niche to recoup the cost of doing so. Leica will definitely have a 47mp M camera, just not an M10 variant - they are not under any pressure to do so and so they won't.

Probably right, but I'm still going to hope. I would take a 1.4/35mm Q2a in it's place.

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10 minutes ago, 6bit said:

Probably right, but I'm still going to hope. I would take a 1.4/35mm Q2a in it's place.

i would be in line right behind you for that Q2a

Edited by Kwesi
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I'm a recent Leica owner, buying the M10 in Nov. 2017. Using Capture One Pro to process my images, I have printed to 16x20 on my Epson P800 with fantastic results. I have also printed cropped images from my Fuji XT1 (16mp), XT2 (24 mp) and XT3 (24 mp) over the years to 16x20 and they look great too.

Since I don't print larger than 16 x 20, the 24 mp sensor is more than adequate even with the APS-C Fuji X sensors.

That said, I would be interested in an "SL2" if it has the new 47 mp sensor for the ability to crop tighter rather than for making larger prints. With the SL2, I could also invest in the excellent Leica zooms to complete my conversion to Leica from Fuji X. Oh choices!

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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@budjames When you say you have printed to 16x20 there is nothing qualify the numbers. Imperial or Metric? 16x20 yards, feet, or inches (rods, poles, perches, fathoms, chains, furlongs, miles, leagues also possible!)? 16x20 mms, cms, kms? 

I once ordered a print done as 20x30 cms. When it arrived from the printer (part of Hewlett Packard) it was 20x30 inches!

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36 minutes ago, Peter Kilmister said:

@budjames When you say you have printed to 16x20 there is nothing qualify the numbers. Imperial or Metric? 16x20 yards, feet, or inches (rods, poles, perches, fathoms, chains, furlongs, miles, leagues also possible!)? 16x20 mms, cms, kms? 

I once ordered a print done as 20x30 cms. When it arrived from the printer (part of Hewlett Packard) it was 20x30 inches!

Sorry for assuming that "16x20" would be misunderstood as this is a standard print size in the USA. I meant to say 16" x 20" (inches).

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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On 5/8/2019 at 12:09 PM, dkmoore said:

almost double the size of M10 files I believe, before editing. I use a2018  MacBook pro 75% of the time and Mac desktop the other 25%. I have no issues with 24MPX files but I think working through a few hundred 80MB files would dramatically slow down my computer.

If I adopt a larger MP sensor camera I will upgrade computer along with it.

I use a 2014 Macbook Pro with the Sony 42 mpx uncompressed files (80 to 90mb) and I don't have any issue at all with processing speed. You should be fine with any reasonably recent machine.

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4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I use a 2014 Macbook Pro with the Sony 42 mpx uncompressed files (80 to 90mb) and I don't have any issue at all with processing speed. You should be fine with any reasonably recent machine.

I disagree but we most likely have different expectations. I like operating with no delays and quick imports. I also have a 2014 MacBook Pro with the highest specs and it absolutely has delay and I am not storing any photos or videos on it (all in the cloud).

 

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Couple of performance tips:

Memory and SSD is a photogs best friend. Whatever computers people are using for 24MP or 50MP files, install as much memory as your computer supports and if possible internal SSD will increase/maintain performance dramatically. If you have USB-C ports on your computer then importing/exporting and storing/editing images on USB-C/Thunderbolt compatible external SSDs can be very fast too. Check your SD card reader too. Try using fast external SD card readers for maximum import performance. 

* Slow cards = slow imports. Buy your SD cards wisely. Don't cheap out on SD cards if you value your time

Note: fo HDD or SSD never let your drive fill up more than 60-75% for maximum performance. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

Couple of performance tips:

Memory and SSD is a photogs best friend. Whatever computers people are using for 24MP or 50MP files, install as much memory as your computer supports and if possible internal SSD will increase/maintain performance dramatically. If you have USB-C ports on your computer then importing/exporting and storing/editing images on USB-C/Thunderbolt compatible external SSDs can be very fast too. Check your SD card reader too. Try using fast external SD card readers for maximum import performance. 

* Slow cards = slow imports. Buy your SD cards wisely. Don't cheap out on SD cards if you value your time

Note: fo HDD or SSD never let your drive fill up more than 60-75% for maximum performance. 

 

 

 

I agree and subscribe to this explicitly. For my MacBook Pro's I have the max upgrades direct from Apple for both the 2014 and 2018 laptops. I haven't gone to any up fitters for extended memory but I haven't needed to for the 2018.

I use the cloud and backup to a solid state drive. I also use Sandisk Extreme Pro 32MB cards (latest version with 300 write speed).

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