Upcoming M10X with 47MP?

[jdlaing]

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59 minutes ago, Dirk Mandeville said:

That is hilariously short-sighted. I’m sure before the M8 came out there were people saying we would never see a digital M camera. And before the M240, there were no doubt some people thinking (or hoping) we would never see a CMOS sensor or video in an M.  And today there are people who think we will never see an M camera with an evf or hybrid viewfinder, which I expect is coming at some point.  

The ONLY thing you can safely say is that Leica will produce whatever they decide is necessary to keep the M line relevant and popular with their customers.  That may very well mean a higher resolution sensor and/or an evf or hybrid viewfinder at some point. Never say never. 

You misunderstood what I said.

Leica will not take a series, such as an M-240, and put in a higher resolution sensor and still call it an M-240.

If they jump up a sensor resolution it will be the next iteration in an M body such as M11, 12 or the like. Keep in mind there is a lot more to the sensor package than the wafer.

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[ChicagoMatthew]

They are definitely going to up the megapickles. Because it’s the only metric that’s respected as a hard and fast rule. They can tout all these things we want, like better battery life (please please please), dynamic range, heat management.. etc. But you can’t sell a camera on better battery life... it’s a non-starter... they have to start with megapixels and go from there.

What’s interesting and maybe an indicator of their intention to up the megapickels on the M line is the 50 APO, because lens stress has dogged the last few big MP sensors in the past, like the 5DSR. The Canon L lenses from the 5D3 days were out resolved by the 5DSR sensor, so people got angry thinking it was the sensor. Then tons of new improved L lenses started getting released. Suddenly... the 5DSR ain’t so terrible  

So... maybe the 50apo is an indicator of where they are going with the sensor? 

🤔

Edited July 10, 2019 by ChicagoMatthew

[Simone_DF]

Considering that Sony has just announced an A7rIV with 61mp for 3500$, I really don't see Leica sticking to 24mp.

[dkmoore]

29 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Considering that Sony has just announced an A7rIV with 61mp for 3500$, I really don't see Leica sticking to 24mp.

I’m not being a smart ass when saying that I doubt Leica is considering what Sony is doing. They have always marched to their own drum.  

That said the rumor mill is saying the new sensor would be in the 36MP range. But this has nothing to do with Sony. 

[Chaemono]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Simone_DF:

Considering that Sony has just announced an A7rIV with 61mp for 3500$, I really don't see Leica sticking to 24mp.

It comes with cooked RAW files “...utilizes algorithms from many of the latest Alpha cameras to maintain outstanding color reproduction.” 😁 

[jdlaing]

35 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

It comes with cooked RAW files “...utilizes algorithms from many of the latest Alpha cameras to maintain outstanding color reproduction.” 😁 

All raw files are cooked no matter who the manufacturer is.

[jdlaing]

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36 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

It comes with cooked RAW files “...utilizes algorithms from many of the latest Alpha cameras to maintain outstanding color reproduction.” 😁 

All raw files are cooked no matter who the manufacturer is.

[Chaemono]

Got it. Resistance is futile. The RAW files will be assimilated by the algos to yield outstanding color reproduction. 😁

[Chaemono]

And DxOMark keeps measuring sensor performance whereas they should really be comparing algos performance. They implicitly admit it when they refer to the Q2 and the S1R sensors as similar. One cooks the RAW files better, it seems. https://www.dxomark.com/leica-q-2-sensor-review/

[Photon42]

On 7/16/2019 at 5:30 PM, dkmoore said:

I’m not being a smart ass when saying that I doubt Leica is considering what Sony is doing. They have always marched to their own drum.  

That said the rumor mill is saying the new sensor would be in the 36MP range. But this has nothing to do with Sony. 

Ah ... the old S 007 sensor 😂

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Ah ... the old S 007 sensor 😂

They haven't been recycling sensors for the new cameras so probably not. The Maistro processor v2 has been used across lines.

[jaapv]

19 hours ago, dkmoore said:

They haven't been recycling sensors for the new cameras so probably not. The Maistro processor v2 has been used across lines.

But they'll likely need an upgraded processor version for the higher pixel count - mainly less heat dispersion.

[250swb]

On 7/16/2019 at 4:30 PM, dkmoore said:

 

That said the rumor mill is saying the new sensor would be in the 36MP range. But this has nothing to do with Sony. 

You could possibly be right, my guess is that 36mp is the limit of what is possible on a practical level without having IBIS (or selling each camera with a tripod). This would maintain the form factor of the M camera. But with anything more than 36mp I'm sure the designers will need to find room for IBIS, a bigger battery, an EVF (because focusing will become even more critical), and that will be the end of the ever evolving M sized camera as we know it. 

[magixaxeman]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

You could possibly be right, my guess is that 36mp is the limit of what is possible on a practical level without having IBIS (or selling each camera with a tripod). This would maintain the form factor of the M camera. But with anything more than 36mp I'm sure the designers will need to find room for IBIS, a bigger battery, an EVF (because focusing will become even more critical), and that will be the end of the ever evolving M sized camera as we know it. 

You don't need any of the above except for a larger battery to feed the ever hungry processor.

I also shoot a Sony A7RM3, oddly enough I can shoot my M10 down to 1/8th sec handheld, yet with its IBIS active can only shoot the Sony down to 1/13th  sec before camera shake is evident and that's without zooming in any deeper on the Sony.

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

You could possibly be right, my guess is that 36mp is the limit of what is possible on a practical level without having IBIS (or selling each camera with a tripod). This would maintain the form factor of the M camera. But with anything more than 36mp I'm sure the designers will need to find room for IBIS, a bigger battery, an EVF (because focusing will become even more critical), and that will be the end of the ever evolving M sized camera as we know it. 

I would welcome more resolution to the next M cameras with a new sensor with 36MP and more dynamic range, they may have to control the shutter shake more.

I assume the older lenses will look soft on a 36MP sensor.

I had the A7R2 with 36MP and I was always shooting 1/250 and up to remove shake blur. The Shutter made lots of noise and produce lots of shake.

I just tested the A7R4 in NY and preordered already. some of my jobs required High-res and lots of dynamic range

[pico]

44 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I assume the older lenses will look soft on a 36MP sensor.

Why?

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

I would welcome more resolution to the next M cameras with a new sensor with 36MP and more dynamic range, they may have to control the shutter shake more.

I assume the older lenses will look soft on a 36MP sensor.

I had the A7R2 with 36MP and I was always shooting 1/250 and up to remove shake blur. The Shutter made lots of noise and produce lots of shake.

I just tested the A7R4 in NY and preordered already. some of my jobs required High-res and lots of dynamic range

Actually, just the opposite.

[250swb]

3 hours ago, magixaxeman said:

 

I also shoot a Sony A7RM3, oddly enough I can shoot my M10 down to 1/8th sec handheld, yet with its IBIS active can only shoot the Sony down to 1/13th  sec before camera shake is evident and that's without zooming in any deeper on the Sony.

I can take a sharp picture with my M10 at 1/8th second as well, but citing extremes only makes the point you are trying to make even more ludicrous. Come future models of camera do you seriously expect Leica to say to customers we aren't introducing image stabilisation because magiaxeman over on the Leica User Forum says he doesn't need it so you don't either?

It isn't a contest between who can do what, it is making a camera for the rest of the world to use, besides which if you are getting into a match between your M10 and your A7RM3 at slow speeds then now is the time to buy a tripod and not rely on chance.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[magixaxeman]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

I can take a sharp picture with my M10 at 1/8th second as well, but citing extremes only makes the point you are trying to make even more ludicrous. Come future models of camera do you seriously expect Leica to say to customers we aren't introducing image stabilisation because magiaxeman over on the Leica User Forum says he doesn't need it so you don't either?

It isn't a contest between who can do what, it is making a camera for the rest of the world to use, besides which if you are getting into a match between your M10 and your A7RM3 at slow speeds then now is the time to buy a tripod and not rely on chance.

Different tools for different jobs, the Sony is just there for remote shooing tethered to my laptop for studio stuff, The M10 is there for fun shooting handheld.

However I can't for the life of me see why Leica would put IBIS in an M camera.

[dkmoore]

17 hours ago, jaapv said:

But they'll likely need an upgraded processor version for the higher pixel count - mainly less heat dispersion.

Especially if they add back in video and (hopefully not) a built in EVF. I imagine the new processor version will be seen first in the S3. Weird that Leica announced this camera almost a year ago and still....crickets...