Normal Focusing with M10?

[Johno]

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Hi

 

I'm new to rangefinders. With my M10 and Zeiss planar f2 and Summilux 35mm FLE it seems I'm maxed out on focus movement right at infinity.

Are Leica lenses supposed to focus to "infinity and beyond," or are they supposed to be "hard over" at infinity? I'm not absolutely certain either lens is at full sharpness because I can't focus past the point where the images align.

 

thanks for your help

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[adan]

Leica M lenses stop right at the infinity mark on the ring. (Unless there is an adjustment problem with the lens or camera).

The rangefinder images should be aligned on a very distant subject (at least a mile away, preferably the Moon) when the lens is at that hard stop.

They don't do the "infinity and beyond" that some SLR lenses do, which is usually to allow for thermal expansion of the lens barrel, or for autofocus "hunting" (M lenses just aren't large or long enough for that to affect them, and of course are also not AF).

You kinda have to just count on Leica's engineers and mathematicians being really, really good at their jobs.

 

[Johno]

Thanks

 

I'm not convinced it's as sharp as possible at infinity. I need to do some more shooting in real world conditions to find out. What are the chances the camera is out of whack?

[jaapv]

If you read the forums - yes there is a definite chance. In the real world - unlikely, especially if the camera is fine at other distances.

[250swb]

11 hours ago, Johno said:

Thanks

 

I'm not convinced it's as sharp as possible at infinity. I need to do some more shooting in real world conditions to find out. What are the chances the camera is out of whack?

If you are testing at infinity don't forget to factor in atmospheric distortion and haze. It's unlikely your camera is 'out of whack', the forum naturally attracts people who have problems with a badly adjusted camera, but it doesn't attract in the same way the hundreds of thousands of people who haven't got a problem. Doesn't mean it's not so though, but it's easier to do bad tests than good tests.

[dkmoore]

5 hours ago, 250swb said:

If you are testing at infinity don't forget to factor in atmospheric distortion and haze. It's unlikely your camera is 'out of whack', the forum naturally attracts people who have problems with a badly adjusted camera, but it doesn't attract in the same way the hundreds of thousands of people who haven't got a problem. Doesn't mean it's not so though, but it's easier to do bad tests than good tests.

I would have fully agreed with you until recently and I’ve owned 10+ different M cameras with ZERO issues.

Im on my third M10P, all direct replacements from Leica NJ due to factory issues. 

I do agree that I’m in the minority and that chances are the gear is probably good. The ONLY reason I am making it a point to respond is that I would hate for potential Leica users to give up on the M due to not know it is in fact faulty equipment. 

[250swb]

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18 hours ago, dkmoore said:

I do agree that I’m in the minority and that chances are the gear is probably good. The ONLY reason I am making it a point to respond is that I would hate for potential Leica users to give up on the M due to not know it is in fact faulty equipment. 

Of course, but looking at what the OP says about not being able to focus beyond infinity they are fundamentally misunderstanding a manual camera, and because of this are now actively searching around for theories that it isn't them, it is the camera. This is the perspective of the situation.

Responding to the OP you can either fan pour petrol on the flames or suggest they take a step back. If you have somebody on the edge of the cliff not knowing if to jump it's best not to remind them that their dog is happier in it's new home, their wife has finally hooked up with a guy with a good salary, oh, and your camera could be like mine and need three trips for repair.

[LBJ2]

On 5/1/2019 at 3:23 PM, Johno said:

Thanks

 

I'm not convinced it's as sharp as possible at infinity. I need to do some more shooting in real world conditions to find out. What are the chances the camera is out of whack?

I'd only add to watch out for atmospherics ( humidity, heat etc) which can destroy sharpness particularly at infinity or long distances while testing real-world.

Edited May 3, 2019 by LBJ2

[dkmoore]

15 hours ago, 250swb said:

Of course, but looking at what the OP says about not being able to focus beyond infinity they are fundamentally misunderstanding a manual camera, and because of this are now actively searching around for theories that it isn't them, it is the camera. This is the perspective of the situation.

Responding to the OP you can either fan pour petrol on the flames or suggest they take a step back. If you have somebody on the edge of the cliff not knowing if to jump it's best not to remind them that their dog is happier in it's new home, their wife has finally hooked up with a guy with a good salary, oh, and your camera could be like mine and need three trips for repair.

good point (not sarcasm).

[dau]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

fundamentally misunderstanding a manual camera

There are some manual cameras which can move the lens beyond the infinity setting, and some which can not. Neither is intrinsically more or less a manual camera. Being able to move beyond infinity allows people with poorer eyesight to find the best focus with an RF by moving the lens past the optimal point and back. Not moving beyond infinity allows people to blindly focus to infinity. Both capabilities can be useful. 

People asking about this particular feature don't have to be ridiculed. You can just point out the facts, as others here did.

[pico]

Focusing beyond infinity makes pictures of the Twilight Zone. It can make you crazy.

[Jeff S]

It worked for Buzz Lightyear.

Jeff

[250swb]

7 hours ago, dau said:

People asking about this particular feature don't have to be ridiculed. You can just point out the facts, as others here did.

Perhaps you have an overactive imagination.

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

I'd only add to watch out for atmospherics ( humidity, heat etc) which can destroy sharpness particularly at infinity or long distances while testing real-world.

That is why judging infinity is best done by focusing on the moon on a clear night. 

[dau]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

Perhaps you have an overactive imagination.

Why don't you take a step back?

[fotografr]

I have two M10s and with both of them all of my M lenses stop exactly at the infinity point. If I follow your concern, you'd like to be able to go slightly past infinity and back so you can accurately see the images align. This shouldn't be necessary. If the camera is adjusted so the images align at infinity, there's no need to focus back and forth.

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by fotografr

[250swb]

22 hours ago, dau said:

Why don't you take a step back?

I'd walk all the way around the block if it meant not bumping into you, but solving somebody's problem in a forum shouldn't be about listing all your own photographic knowledge, nor listing all the terrible things that can be wrong, but going straight to the most likely solution and keeping it simple until a more complex theory is needed. I have cameras that are able to move the lens past where it is able to focus on infinity, 4x5, 8x10, half plate, etc., but it just isn't necessary to demonstrate this every time a question is asked on the forum. This is a Leica forum and the OP was asking about Leica cameras.

[dau]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

This is a Leica forum and the OP was asking about Leica cameras.

Yes, of course, and 

Zitat

Of course, but looking at what the OP says about not being able to focus beyond infinity they are fundamentally misunderstanding a manual camera, and because of this are now actively searching around for theories that it isn't them, it is the camera. This is the perspective of the situation.

is the most straightforward way of saying that this is always so with Leicas but not with other RF cameras.

Oh my.

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Hallo,

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[budjames]

I have not had any focus issues with either of my two M10s. However, when I purchased my first one in Nov 2017, I had a routinely random issue with the Summicron 35 mounted that the lens reading function would show "Adapted-R" in the metadata and on the LCD display instead of the Summicron 35.lens. By playing with the lens framing lever, I could get the readout to change between Summicron 35 and Adapted-R lens readings. I was also having focus issues with my brand new Summicron 35 and Summilux 50 lenses.

I took my new M10, Summicron 35 and Summilux 50 lenses to the NJ repair center in early Dec. After about an hour wait, I got the bad news that both lenses were out of calibration from the factory, but the M10 was fine. I left with the camera body only. I didn't get my lenses back from service until mid January.

After getting my lenses back, the random issue with the lens registration persisted but with lesser frequency. Since then I purchased the Summilux 35 so in Oct. 2018, I sent the Summicron 35 back to the service center to check out. The turnaround was one day. When I got the lens back, the service order included the installation of washers and recalibration. It's been great since.

My problem with the lens registration occurred less and less over time. Now, I can no longer invoke the issue by flicking the lens frame lever, so the problem just went away. Perhaps something wore in through use. All has been good for the past 7 months.

So much for the "legendary" Leica quality control based on my experiences above.

I have since purchased a number of Leica lenses and a 2nd M10 body. I have had no issues with any of this gear. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[250swb]

On 5/5/2019 at 8:05 AM, dau said:

Yes, of course, and 

is the most straightforward way of saying that this is always so with Leicas but not with other RF cameras.

Oh my.

No in context the OP's question was about Leica manual lenses and not about Leica autofocus cameras or lenses so there was no need to repeat what the question was, we were talking about Leica manual cameras.