willeica Posted May 8, 2019 Share #41 Posted May 8, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Stuart. I have found it now. This is not a camera auction but rather one for Science and Tech, Mech Music and Toys and includes a lot of military related items. The item itself is fully declared to be a fake, but it it seems to be in fine condition and contains an unusual engraving of what seems to be an Me 109 fighter plane. Note that the auction also includes a lot of models of World War II aircraft. Given the unusual nature of the item and its condition, I would not regard the start price of €280 as being unusually high, but the auction will tell whether it is at the right level to get 'bidding traction'. The person who buys this is unlikely to go running around the streets and fields shooting rolls of film with it. As Leica collectors we should not look down on copies and fakes, but rather regard them for what they are in their own right. Certainly this is the view of Leica AG and its current management. I have about 40 vintage Leicas and 4 copies, a Zorki, 2 Reids and a Leotax. I would not buy fake WWII 'Leicas' myself, but I appreciate that others may be interested in such items. The 'proof of the pudding' will be in the auction on 18th May. When it comes to collectors' items, there is no such thing as a 'correct price' but rather prices reflect the market or potential market for such items. Most experienced collectors will have some idea of what they would be prepared to pay for such an item. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 8, 2019 Posted May 8, 2019 Hi willeica, Take a look here Value of fakes. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
antiquecameras.net Posted October 20, 2022 Share #42 Posted October 20, 2022 William (Willleica), I just acquired a genuine Leica IIIc camera with fake Luftwaffe engravings ..would love to converse with you about it. Dan dcolucci@aol.com dan@antiquecameras.net Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/296764-value-of-fakes/?do=findComment&comment=4539515'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 20, 2022 Share #43 Posted October 20, 2022 10 hours ago, antiquecameras.net said: William (Willleica), I just acquired a genuine Leica IIIc camera with fake Luftwaffe engravings ..would love to converse with you about it. Dan dcolucci@aol.com dan@antiquecameras.net Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Use a PM, but can you wait until next week as I'm heading off to talk to the Photographic Collectors Club of Great Britain about 'Unusual Leicas' this weekend? William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiquecameras.net Posted October 20, 2022 Share #44 Posted October 20, 2022 1 hour ago, willeica said: 1 hour ago, willeica said: For some reason I cant PM from this account. If you like, my email is dan@antiquecameras.net Best wishes for a great show and talk dan 1 hour ago, willeica said: Use a PM, but can you wait until next week as I'm heading off to talk to the Photographic Collectors Club of Great Britain about 'Unusual Leicas' this weekend? William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 20, 2022 Share #45 Posted October 20, 2022 Even Leica make fakes, they've just made a fake M6 😄 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Brown Posted October 25, 2022 Share #46 Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 1:32 AM, earleygallery said: Even Leica make fakes, they've just made a fake M6 😄 And they totally pissed off 999 buyers of "Die letzten 999" special edition. I knew not to mess with it - it was just 666 written upside down... 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 26, 2022 Share #47 Posted October 26, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Canon website history 4 states that Goro Yoshida, an engineer who had worked with motion picture projectors and equipment disassembled and studied a Leica model II in 1932-1933. He found that the camera, which sold for more than six months of salary of a well-paid office worker, was uncomplicated in construction. Yoshida is quoted by Canon: "I just disassembled the camera without any specific plan, but simply to take a look at each part. I found there were no special items like diamonds inside the camera. The parts were made from brass, aluminum, iron and rubber. I was surprised that when these inexpensive materials were put together into a camera, it demanded an exorbitant price. This made me angry." Goro Yoshida in later years In November 1933, with his brother-in-law Saburo Uchida (1899-1982) and with Takeo Maeda (1909-1977), Yoshida established Seiki-Kōgaku Kenkyusho (Precision Optical Instruments Laboratory) to develop a 35mm rangefinder camera. They produced a prototype 35mm camera, which they called the "Kwanon", but which was not commercialized. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfaspen Posted October 27, 2022 Share #48 Posted October 27, 2022 I have several canon rangefinders. They are indeed small works of art. Many have claimed to surpass contemporary Leica models Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 27, 2022 Share #49 Posted October 27, 2022 20 hours ago, jankap said: ..."I just disassembled the camera......The parts were made from brass, aluminum, iron and rubber. I was surprised that when these inexpensive materials were put together into a camera, it demanded an exorbitant price. This made me angry."... Arrogant p***k. Copying is extremely easy; Inventing is something else entirely. I have absolutely no time for a*******s like him. People can copy the Mona Lisa but that doesn't make them Leonardo da Vinci. I wonder how "angry" he would have been had HE spent many years in inventing and developing the concept of a compact rangefinder camera system with built-in rangefinder focussing; the possibility of using a variety of interchangeable lenses; a system of film cassettes which gave the photographer 36 exposures per roll - and which could be substituted for ANOTHER roll (or more if neccessary) - and then, years later, watched a complete non-entity disassemble HIS invention, copy its every idea and churn out copies of HIS idea by the tens of thousands. THAT sort of behaviour would justify anger IMO. Philip. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 27, 2022 Share #50 Posted October 27, 2022 2 hours ago, pippy said: Arrogant p***k. Copying is extremely easy; Inventing is something else entirely. I have absolutely no time for a*******s like him. That is life. The patents of the original hold. See the Zeiss, Canon, etc. rangefinder constructions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 27, 2022 Share #51 Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, jankap said: That is life. The patents of the original hold. See the Zeiss, Canon, etc. rangefinder constructions. Possibly, jankap, but I don't approve of the sheer conceit of his attitude - as reported (albeit translated) - in any way, shape or form. Perhaps his comments have been taken out of context somewhat and it might be that he paid some form of due appreciation and tribute to the actual genius behind the idea he plagiarised to its fullest extent......but I wouldn't bet on it. The oft-used phrase 'Standing on the shoulders of Giants' springs to mind but at least others have had the humility to acknowledge the fact openly. Philip. Edited October 27, 2022 by pippy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted October 27, 2022 Share #52 Posted October 27, 2022 On 10/26/2022 at 2:24 PM, jankap said: The parts were made from brass, aluminum, iron and rubber. What, no sticky back plastic? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted October 27, 2022 Share #53 Posted October 27, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, pgk said: What, no sticky back plastic? How could there be, Paul? Valerie Singleton, Peter Purves, my own hero John Noakes (and Shep) hadn't yet invented the stuff! I say we should all petition the BBC and request an honourary Gold Blue Peter Badge be awarded posthumously to Oskar Barnack for 'Services Rendered'... Philip. Edited October 27, 2022 by pippy 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted October 27, 2022 Share #54 Posted October 27, 2022 20 minutes ago, pgk said: What, no sticky back plastic? Sticky back vulcanite. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted October 27, 2022 Share #55 Posted October 27, 2022 Goro Yoshida was blatantly wrong: in the Universe diamonds are far more common and valueless/worthless than Leicas... 🤣 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted October 27, 2022 Share #56 Posted October 27, 2022 Here is a nice overview of the pre-Leica development. Unperforated/perforated film, half frame/full frame pictures, etc. https://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2020/07/pre-leica-35mm-cameras.html 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted October 27, 2022 Share #57 Posted October 27, 2022 What the article did not say is that Oskar Barnack had previously worked for Zeiss and proposed what became the Leica to Zeiss. His ideas were rejected. The story picks up when Barnack moves to E. Leitz. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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