For B&W: Using ColorEfex rather than SilverEfex?

[Guest Nowhereman]

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Usually I use SilverEfex, but a few weeks I rsaw somewhere on the LUF a reference to using ColorEfex for B&W conversions. I've tried that for a while and generally like it for the type of high contrast look that I often aim for. Here's a color image followed by a ColorEfex B&W conversion, with final adjustments in Lightroom. Has anyone tried ColorEfex for this purpose?

M9 | Summicron 35v4 | ISO 320 | f5.6 | 1/1500 sec | Pig farm, Wiang Pao, Chiang Rai Province

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Edited April 27, 2019 by Nowhereman

[Guest Nowhereman]

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[250swb]

I would have thought you could get the same sort of effect in Silver Efex if you experiment a bit, or if you start with a pre-set make sure you dial out any adjustments you don't like such as grain, vignetting, etc. But I often switch between the two, Silver and Color as each has it's own advantages. Many times I will start in Color Efex and go to Silver Efex for the final adjustments. Totally off the top of my head if you wanted that sort of effect from Silver Efex get the contrast more or less correct then play with the 'Soft Contrast' slider going well into the + range.

[Guest Nowhereman]

Yes, I've tried that; but the interesting thing in the ColorEfex B&W conversion set is the filter slider, which affects the conversions of several colors together that is extremely difficult to replicate in SilverEfex. Normally, one would want to control the conversion by individual hues, but when you want a high contrast result the ColorEfex method can be useful.

[frame-it]

nice look.. i thought these sliders did the same thing, though not all together..  will try color fx tonight.

 

though what you describe is easy in capture one if the adjustments are done in a layer.

Silver FX

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LR

Edited April 28, 2019 by frame-it

[Guest Nowhereman]

^ But that's my point, that the filter slider in ColorEfex changes a mix of colors, together, and creates a look that I find difficult (actually, impossible) to replicate either in SilverEfex or LR. I'll be interested in hearing what you find when why try; but, mind you, my feeling is that this is useful only when you want high contrast.

[250swb]

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So what's the formula, what are the settings you use to create this particular high contrast look, I'll try it and report back.

Edited April 30, 2019 by 250swb

[Guest Nowhereman]

Thanks, I'll be interested in what you find. The filter that I have been using is B/W Conversion, whose description is here. The settings I've used for the picture below are attached.There are three choices for the of conversions: Dynamic Contrast, Tonal Enhancer and B/W Conversion, and the Tonal Enhancer has a drop down menu for three intensities. You can save your settings as a Recipe. Thera are also some builtin recipes.

In the next few posts are few other examples, with the last one, of the longan tree, having been done with the ColoeEfex Infrared filter. (The name is unimportant: it's just a "handle" and doesn't mean you're trying to simulate infrared film.)

Also, for most of these, I've added some finishing touches in Lightroom.

 

M10 | DR Summicron | ISO 200 | f/2.0 | 1/750

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Edited April 30, 2019 by Nowhereman

[Guest Nowhereman]

M9 | DR Summicron | ISO 200 | f/2.0 | 1/750

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[Guest Nowhereman]

M10 | Summaron-M 1/5.6/28 | ISO 1600 | f/5.6 | 1/350

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[Guest Nowhereman]

M10 | Summicron 35v4 | ISO 3200 | f/11.0 | 1/45

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[Guest Nowhereman]

And here is the last, using the Infrared filter.

M10 | DR Summicron | ISO 200 | f/2.0 | 1/750

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[Guest Nowhereman]

One more thing, most of the time I first process the color image in Lightroom quickly, particularly if I've underexposed significantly to protect highlights, otherwise the filters can be applied on the SOOC image. 

[250swb]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:42 AM, Nowhereman said:

 

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I'm baffled now because in Silver Efex you can start with a Dynamic Contrast preset and in the Filter section you have exactly the same Colour Filter slider bar (but called Hue) together with Strength. There is no difference between Color Efex and Silver Efex in the outcome except that Silver Efex has far more potential points for adjustment beyond what you are showing here. 

So, if you start with the Dynamic Contrast preset then look over to the right of your screen you'll see what parameters it has adjusted, you can now apply it manually in future or adjust any aspect of it. You then set your filter colour to green/cyan, set the strength, go to brightness and contrast and adjust those, protect the highlights and shadows as much or as little as you desire, and you've got the same adjustments as Color Efex plus a whole lot more waiting on the sidelines.

Underlying both Color Efex and Silver Efex are the same processing formulas, so if converting B&W there is nothing that Color Efex can do that Silver Efex can't do if you work through and understand what is being adjusted. Sure one can be presented simpler than the other, and I can see having brightness and contrast in the same panel in Color Efex could make it simpler, but once the formula is in your head or saved as your own preset then Silver Efex can do the same job with a lot more refinement.

Edited May 2, 2019 by 250swb

[Guest Nowhereman]

Not sure why you should be "baffled". Do you mean that you tried to get the the same high contrast look with SilverEfex that you had with ColorEfex and found it easy to do using the way you described? I just did that with the image in post #1 and then with the first image in post #9. First, I don't see a preset called "Dynamic Contrast" in SilverEfex there is one called 015 Full Dynamic (harsh) and  016 Full Dynamic (smooth). I used the latter. On the post #1 image that gets me close to my ColorEfex image but, even with further adjustments "on the right side" of SilverEfex, I still don't get to there. While I couldn't achieve the look that I have in post #1,I didn't end up fairly close; but still not where I wanted to be. On the post #9 image (Paris), using the same approach in SiverEfex, I did not end up with the combination of light tones in the background buildings and the faces and the dark tones in parts of the road. (Actually, I also tried AnalogEfex on this image, and found it easier to get closer in my results than with SilverEfex.)

My conclusion is that if you want high contrast B&W it's worthwhile to try ColorEfex — I would have not thought of doing that until I read a passing comment by someone on LUF. I'm not saying that you cannot get the same effect — and of course in Photoshop, if you have enough skill, you can do anything. Rather, it seems to me that, for high contrast B&W, it's easier to use ColorEfex because, with the single Filter Slider that controls the rendition of sets of colors, you can see the effect that you may want  as you move through the slider — and that can be much easier and quicker than moving the individual color sliders in SilverEfex. Also, I don't see the SilverEfex Hue Slider woking the same way. Finally, the ColorEfex BW Conversion facility has two more modes in addition to Dynamic Contrast: Tonal Enahancer and B/W Conversion.

[250swb]

11 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Not sure why you should be "baffled".

I'm baffled because you seem to be saying that Color Efex has a unique series of settings that makes a better image (for you) than Silver Efex, why would you do this? It isn't true, they are the same software arranged differently with some differences in terminology. If you can achieve a B&W 'look' in Color Efex you can do exactly the same thing in Silver Efex. As I said, you may find the Color Efex approach simpler and that is fine, but achieving the same look it isn't as big a revelation as you imagine for anybody who knows their way around Silver Efex.

Edited May 3, 2019 by 250swb

[Guest Nowhereman]

You haven't answered my questions. I don't see it as the same software. 

In any case, my conclusion is that, for anyone interested in producing high-contrast photos from digital color images, trying out ColorEfex might be productive and rewarding.  

[dkmoore]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:24 PM, Nowhereman said:

You haven't answered my questions. I don't see it as the same software. 

In any case, my conclusion is that, for anyone interested in producing high-contrast photos from digital color images, trying out ColorEfex might be productive and rewarding.  

I just stumbled upon this thread and I've been using color and silver Efex in conjunction with LR and PS for years and for whatever reason never tried the BW conversion in color Efex. I think this was a good tip and I never would have tried it otherwise. It is much quicker to use this BW conversion in color Efex for the high contract specific look. 

*not posting the photo because I think it is good, just trying out the editing technique - very quick editl*

 

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Edited May 19, 2019 by dkmoore

[bags27]

Thanks! I will try this. Lately, I've gravitated away from Silver Efex, and instead made sure the black and white were as far away as reasonably possible in Camera Raw, and then adjusting with Levels and Curves in PS, before going to Black and White there. That's given me a lot of creative flexibility. But always up for new things.

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