Jump to content

Lumix S Pro 50/1.4 vs. 50 Summilux-SL - image thread


Chaemono

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I think reference 50s deserve their own comparison thread, especially when everyone assumes that 'reference' implies optical excellence, including perceived sharpness wide open. Now granted, Leica lens designers under Peter Karbe have been placing the bar quite high when it comes to optical performance including high contrast at the point of focus wide open. Nothing symbolizes this design philosophy more than the picture of Peter Karbe holding a T-shirt that says 'STOP DOWN FOR WHAT?' at a Leitz Park event in June 2018. Let's see if he deserves this legacy. In the L-mount alliance, Panasonic not only labels some of their lenses 'Pro,' many are also certified by Leica. As they should be, because they are optically very good performers and great value for money when it comes to lack of CA/PF, flare, etc. wide open. But can Panasonic folks proudly wear this T-shirt that Peter Karbe is shown holding in #24 here?

 

Let's look at some pictures. As usual, links to less compressed JPEGs and, because I'm a nice guy, to the RAW files are posted.

All at equal settings and with the exact same adjustments in LR. Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4 RW2 file here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g606354659-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=OdrEuLl9haQ21UB6hNpibzCsfWv9TX-cm1R23boozoY=

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summilux-SL RW2 file here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g595897418-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=enWDmcVEvadPqxdmf2ydYeZJ5D60Aj33oRwy0TCjHRM=

Edited by Chaemono
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And now the crops. It's not just the dummy's eye in the Leica picture, it's also the 'skin' texture and tones that show the incredibly strong contrast that the 50 Summilux-SL is able to achieve wide open. For all the MPx fetishists out there, can you image this SL prime on the S1R? 😁

Less compressed JPEGs here (because LUF compressions stinks): https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summilux-SL

Edited by Chaemono
Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's show the bicycle lamp, too. The difference is even more obvious here. Both with the exact same settings and adjustments in LR.

Less compressed compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4 RW2 file here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g817348081-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=SR4XiiEezSk8u3jG0_RDGN_VQbF6sJeZSVn7jOOHVuU=

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summilux-SL RW2 file here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g862489734-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=AYziPQpLHVoSfAoEYrj_59UJH3kixgyIuZSO6zkkMJM=

Link to post
Share on other sites

And now the crops. Look at those lines behind the focus point, clean, smooth, no double lines, just perfect.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summilux-SL

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Panasonic lens obviously resolves fewer details which means it is unable to achieve the same amount of contrast wide open as the Leica lens. Less contrast leads to inferior ability to differentiate between slightly darker and slightly brighter areas of similar color. The Panasonic pictures, therefore, look flat.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The flatness is obvious in this one.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S! + 50 Summilux-SL

 

Edit - I inadvertently had moved the focus ring slightly and the Lumix picture was taken at f/1.6 instead of wide open.

Edited by Chaemono
Lumix picture is at f/1.6, the 50 Summulix-SL wide open.
Link to post
Share on other sites

These two are both wide open. Lumix picture still looks flatter to my eyes. These are with equal adjustments but now slightly warmer temperature for the Lumix picture. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summilux-SL

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

For the cost difference one would hope that the Leica had something extra to offer. But when considering the price/performance ratio, and without a side by side AB test, the S Pro 50 is awfully good and can, IMO, hold its own.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Temperatur matches here, but the Summilux-SL captures the metal tones better IMO.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summiluix-SL

Link to post
Share on other sites

One wants to say that it's a temperature thing, but the background is equally cool/warm. Now with links to the RAW files, again.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-fJjs52/

 

S1 + Lumix S 50/1.4 RW2 file here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g593321034-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=l5M-jmg3dS8EFsHzOgZyWlZGTxStZXkNQ_fiJdjhDrk=

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

S1 + 50 Summilux-SL RW2 file here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g691956963-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=5F11RdEl95Gtiy4_UVYQATvHLGvvtw1njSrX4XQnB8g=

Link to post
Share on other sites

At screen resolution, it seems hard to distinguish these.  At pixel peeping resolution, I suspect that the software correction of distortion / aberrations will make some difference, and the poor AF speed of the Summilux will make a bigger difference than either of these features in real life.  Both of these lenses seem to have great (smooth) background rendering, and fast sharpness falloff.  The Panasonic focuses closer, if I recall correctly.  This seems far from the old days, when the M Summilux was head and shoulders above the (built to a price) competition from Japan.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I love how the Summilux concentrates the light at the point of focus. It’s this effect in combination with the shallow depth of field that draw a viewer’s attention to the subject and not let it be distracted by the background. A flat look on the other hand allows for far more distraction than off-center cats-eyes.

Just a few thoughts on using the lenses side by side. I actually don’t like the moving parts on the Lumix lens. It made me feel that the lens is less protected against moisture/dust. While I did use the focus ring to set its aperture to f/1.4, I sometimes inadvertently moved it.  On focus speed, the Leica lens only focused more slowly in very low light situations where it was very difficult to find contrast. Surprisingly, the Lumix S 50/1.4 had less trouble there. Other than this, the AF speed was equally fast and accurate, I felt. 

Edited by Chaemono
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I looked at all of the full-rez jpegs at the Smugmug link. There are things I like better in each lens.

First of all, the photo I primarily used for the cats-eyes reference in my previous post was the MB car and noticed EXIF states the Lumix lens was at f/1.6 for this image, vs. f/1.4 for the Lux. That might be enough to noticeably round the vignetting in its favor. In other shots, it's closer between the two, but I still think the Lumix has slightly less cats-eyes effect.

For fine details and the chrome metal work, I agree the Lux seems to have slightly more contrast and therefore snap/clarity, at least centrally. The texture in the face of the mannequin is also better, but I wonder if it could be a slight focus placement discrepancy? I also prefer the Lux's background rendering, centrally. The OOF specular highlights in the grass of the flamingos photo shows brighter rims in the Lumix image. But in some images, once off-centre, I prefer the background rendering of the Lumix, such as the cobblestones in the motorcycle photo. I also think the Lumix is sharper off-centre in the plane of focus, assuming exact focus placement between each lens sample combo. The Lux appears to have some astigmatism off-centre. The Lumix's OOF foreground rendering seems slightly calmer than the Lux, based on the OOF foreground areas of the MG car. 

Based on the plane of focus on the ground of the bison and flamingos photos, I wonder if the Lumix lens has a slightly tilted plane? The plane at bottom right seems closer than the left side. The Lux seems to be flat/correct.

I think I could happily use either one, strictly based on image quality of these examples. In addition to shallow depth of field work, I also frequently photograph urban landscapes and would need to see how each handles across-frame sharpness of flat planes. I.e. brick walls at the most basic.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the trouble to post these pics.  Useful reference material.  The Lumix has 2 elements more than the Summilux.  Is this because it has better corrections, or just makes up for using less expensive components by using more of them?

Edited by jrp
Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this very interesting. I think this comparison is basically a red hot danger zone of confirmation bias, however. Even in the full resolution images, they are very very similar. More similar than most lenses I have seen...they seem to be very much of the same "stuff", to the extent that I wouldn't rule out sample variation being able to take one as being better than the other in different circumstances. Based on the optical performance I would personally find it difficult to justify the Leica on the basis of optics alone. Perhaps build quality or handling might make a difference, but if I were looking for a 50mm 1.4 lens for the S1, I would be very happy to purchase the Panasonic lens...it seems an exceptional deal for a lens that challenges the SL Summilux (which in turn challenges the Otus and 50mm APO Summicron).

 

I should also say that most of the images are focusing in the central area, which is the easiest area for any lens. Things might change quite a bit in more demanding photos, such as astrophotography or landscapes in low light...

Edited by Stuart Richardson
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

vor einer Stunde schrieb rscheffler:

I looked at all of the full-rez jpegs at the Smugmug link. There are things I like better in each lens.

The subject needs to be well lighted for the Lumix lens to perform. To quote Peter Karbe from an interview he gave to Thorsten Overgaard on the APO 50 Summicron-M here http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-APO-Summicron-M-ASPH-f-20.html

“Let’s compare it to sailing,...If there is much wind everybody can sail. If there is not much wind, it is hard to sail.  

“It’s the same with low light. You don’t have so much light so the contrast is low. So you need a lens that sees structure and details.” That’s where the 50 Summilux-SL excels which is what the Peter Karbe lenses are all about. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb jrp:

The Lumix has 2 elements more than the Summilux.  Is this because it has better corrections, or just makes up for using less expensive components by using more of them?

No, I think you’re spot on. The Lumix has better corrections, probably to the detriment of contrast, though. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb rscheffler:

Based on the plane of focus on the ground of the bison and flamingos photos, I wonder if the Lumix lens has a slightly tilted plane? The plane at bottom right seems closer than the left side. The Lux seems to be flat/correct.

The Summilux is software corrected, the Lumix may not be to the same extent. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb rscheffler:

For fine details and the chrome metal work, I agree the Lux seems to have slightly more contrast and therefore snap/clarity, at least centrally. The texture in the face of the mannequin is also better,

Focus point is definitely on the near eye in the mannequin pictures. 16 bit FF sensor, if it ever comes, with the SL primes will approach MF performance in regards to this. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb rscheffler:

I also frequently photograph urban landscapes and would need to see how each handles across-frame sharpness of flat planes. I.e. brick walls at the most basic.

I’m not your brick wall guy to compare them and I don’t think the Summilux would have any advantage here. 

vor einer Stunde schrieb rscheffler:

I also prefer the Lux's background rendering, centrally. The OOF specular highlights in the grass of the flamingos photo shows brighter rims in the Lumix image. But in some images, once off-centre, I prefer the background rendering of the Lumix,

Anyone who crops, and that’s what the S1R guys seem to love about the high MPx count of their camera, should prefer the Summilux for background blur because the double lines and the nervous bokeh of the Lumix lens will become visible in those crops.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the SL50 but I use it not very often (more often the 75). It is an excellent lens but “only” a fifty.  And after these tests I actually have the impression that the Panasonic would have been good enough.  But I certainly will not sell it - after all lenses from Leica usually do not lose their value.    But currently 50s are a bit boring for me (the next lens of 2019 will be another 50), I look fast forward to the SL 28, that will be much more interesting. 😐

Actually the first APO 28mm, and the first Summicron 28 for former R users (Ms do not count). So for me really “exciting”. 😀 ✌️👍😜

Edited by caissa
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, caissa said:

I have the SL50 but I use it not very often (more often the 75). It is an excellent lens but “only” a fifty.  And after these tests I actually have the impression that the Panasonic would have been good enough.  But I certainly will not sell it - after all lenses from Leica usually do not lose their value.    But currently 50s are a bit boring for me (the next lens of 2019 will be another 50), I look fast forward to the SL 28, that will be much more interesting.  😐

+1 regarding the 28-Cron-SL! I am particularly interested to learn how it compares to Otus-28. The other Cron-SL of special interest to me is the 21mm.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...