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Leica S adapter L on the Panasonic S1R


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7 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Has anyone here experienced a broken S lens that has received the new AF parts fix? I haven’t read about any examples.  If not, it’s a shame Leica didn’t issue a recall from the start... pay for it now or pay more for it later.  

Jeff

Leica is very proactive with M, much less so with S.  I have an Af failure on a beautiful 30mmS and waiting for the others to break, in addition my S2 has sensor corrosion, none of which Leica will repair without a hefty charge.   I don't know why Leica has abandoned S defects and supported M except M has a louder voice and larger impact on Leica.  

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45 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Has anyone here experienced a broken S lens that has received the new AF parts fix? I haven’t read about any examples.  If not, it’s a shame Leica didn’t issue a recall from the start... pay for it now or pay more for it later.  

Jeff

Many of us have sent in Leica lenses for AF fix, many of us with no or low charge from Leica. Check back on the forum.

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17 minutes ago, darylgo said:

Leica is very proactive with M, much less so with S.  I have an Af failure on a beautiful 30mmS and waiting for the others to break, in addition my S2 has sensor corrosion, none of which Leica will repair without a hefty charge.   I don't know why Leica has abandoned S defects and supported M except M has a louder voice and larger impact on Leica.  

I’ve expressed similar sentiment.  Even some of the significant M problems.... LCD screens, sensor corrosion, etc...were addressed by Leica only after a lot of criticism here on the forum, eventually with Leica’s direct forum response and explanation.  The S forum contained similarly animated discussions regarding lens failures, but of course by a smaller base, and still no explanation from Leica about the root causes.

Another related factor could be where the S system is heading. I still wonder if the S3 might be the end of the S, at least in its current DSLR configuration. Leica’s most general calling card IMO is the lenses, and we haven’t seen any new S lenses in some time. A new S lens or two would suggest to me that the system still has some legs (a mirrorless version would seemingly require a new lens line, with an adapter for current lenses).

We’ll see.

Jeff 

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8 minutes ago, erlingmm said:

Many of us have sent in Leica lenses for AF fix, many of us with no or low charge from Leica. Check back on the forum.

Of course.., but you missed my question, which was whether anybody has experienced a breakage AFTER having received the new (“permanent”) fix.

Jeff

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37 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Of course.., but you missed my question, which was whether anybody has experienced a breakage AFTER having received the new (“permanent”) fix.

Jeff

Ah, sorry. Never heard anybody report that.

About root cause: I think the had a faulty AF mechanism from an OEM partner. It took time to develop a new reliable one, but I understand it is thoroughly tested. Of course you can never exclude errors, but as I said I have never heard anyone report it.

I still think it was a major fault from Leica not to acknowledge the problem and offer a fix sooner, it has harmed the acceptance of the whole system, and many abandoned it due to unreliable lenses. I myself sent in 5 out of 6 lenses (1 was already repaired with new mechanism) before a trip to Sinkiang China in 2017. All repaired at no cost, not problems after repair.

 

Edited by erlingmm
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6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I’ve expressed similar sentiment.  Even some of the significant M problems.... LCD screens, sensor corrosion, etc...were addressed by Leica only after a lot of criticism here on the forum, eventually with Leica’s direct forum response and explanation.  The S forum contained similarly animated discussions regarding lens failures, but of course by a smaller base, and still no explanation from Leica about the root causes.

Another related factor could be where the S system is heading. I still wonder if the S3 might be the end of the S, at least in its current DSLR configuration. Leica’s most general calling card IMO is the lenses, and we haven’t seen any new S lenses in some time. A new S lens or two would suggest to me that the system still has some legs (a mirrorless version would seemingly require a new lens line, with an adapter for current lenses).

We’ll see.

Jeff 

Couldn't agree more Jeff.  Despite all the issues my S system doesn't give up much to anything available today for my landscape shooting.  The resolution is lagging but 37mp is plenty and lately I find stitching (within limitations) far outperforms any sensor into the foreseeable future.  Sensor corrosion is minimal so far, I don't know what the rate of decay will be.  The S reminds me of the R system with lenses now at rock bottom prices for sensational optics, the big question remains with S lenses and electronic lenses going forward, will the manufacturer offer the electronic support?  As an aside, I am playing with a Summar 5cm/f2 lens on my SL, an 85 year old lens that has haze yet works well almost a century later.  

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22 minutes ago, erlingmm said:

\ I myself sent in 5 out of 6 lenses (1 was already repaired with ne mechanism) before a trip to Sinkiang China in 2017. All repaired at no cost, not problems after repair.

 

I was lucky/unlucky to have one break prior to Leica announcing they would charge $400 to repair lenses.  Now, with four non-repaired lenses, one broken but usable with manual focus, I am waiting to make a decision on the system, meanwhile continuing to use it as is.  

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I think the S system is somewhat of a lower priority for Leica, as it is so small. It represents their highest end system, but it is also a very small market. I would guess that the number of S users in the world is probably under 10,000...at least that would be my guess. Possibly much lower. I think they are kind of the position like Apple is in with the Mac Pro. They have a very loyal, entrenched user base begging for the system to be updated to a level at which it can compete, but making something that can satisfy their base, while also being worth it to the company to produce is tricky. The lens and accessory one is also somewhat troubling, given that nothing has come out for the S in years, and while there is quite a good selection of lenses available, there are certain things that would be very useful that are stubbornly not produced -- extension tubes, teleconverters, perhaps even an elpro to get the 120mm APO Macro to 1 to 1 etc. Personally I would love some sort of camera based scanning adapter like Nikon offers (only for 120 film as well), but given the size of the user base they would probably only sell a handful, making the manufacturing and design unprofitable.

Regarding AF, I have not heard of any fixed cameras breaking again...at least after the permanent fix.

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16 minutes ago, darylgo said:

I was lucky/unlucky to have one break prior to Leica announcing they would charge $400 to repair lenses.  Now, with four non-repaired lenses, one broken but usable with manual focus, I am waiting to make a decision on the system, meanwhile continuing to use it as is.  

Have you asked for an offer? Do you have a good dealer? I have heard cases where people have paid much less than that, even for out of warranty lenses.

Edited by erlingmm
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33 minutes ago, erlingmm said:

Have you asked for an offer? Do you have a good dealer? I have heard cases where people have paid much less than that, even for out of warranty lenses.

That's a great suggestion, thank you.  When sending my 30mm the dealer was able to get lenses repaired at no charge, but they must have stopped just prior to my lens arrival in Germany.  

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It’s great that some people have gotten a break, but the fact that some get better deals than others, or far quicker turnaround than others, is disconcerting.  Sometimes it’s appropriate for loyal customers to get preferential treatment (that’s how things often work), but it seems that an important repair, worthy of a recall, should at least be handled consistently, fairly and expeditiously.

Jeff

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Leica repair is not a pretty picture, I've had both great and poor.  Our expectations for service may stem from the quality of Leica products, first class, premium, superior, yet the issues are plenty when the product needs repair or service. 

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I still have a pretty positive feeling towards Leica repair, even though I have had to use them more than I would like. I have felt that more often than not, they try hard to fix things and they also have not tried to deny issues for me. They have had things they could not find. The handling of the AF issue could be better, but they still offer free repair for all lenses within 5 years of purchase, and often still doing it for free for older lenses. As far as I understand it, their legal obligation is 1 to 2 years. I do think they should do it indefinitely, but I get the impression that they have just set that up as a legal defense so that they are not obliged to repair it forever. If you are interested in getting the better treatment, I think in some ways it is as simple as calling them in Germany and politely inquiring about the repairs and explaining your wishes. If you have a good dealer you work with, then you could do this with them as well. I do not, so I go direct. One of the biggest luxuries of this company is that you can pick up the phone and speak to someone who has the power to actually do something, which is quite rare at the larger companies. 

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17 hours ago, Jeff S said:

It’s great that some people have gotten a break, but the fact that some get better deals than others, or far quicker turnaround than others, is disconcerting.  Sometimes it’s appropriate for loyal customers to get preferential treatment (that’s how things often work), but it seems that an important repair, worthy of a recall, should at least be handled consistently, fairly and expeditiously.

Jeff

Best is to speak with your dealer. My guys in Vienna persuaded Wetzlar to fix a lens for me for free that I'd purchased back in 2012. In fact, all four of my failed lenses have been fixed for free. Having said this, I am a loyal customer, if there is one (S007 with 7 native lenses, SL with three native lenses, M10....plus a list of cameras / lenses previously purchased and sold). Thinking about it, Wetzlar should not only be fixing all my lenses for free without kibitzing, they should also be sending me a Christmas card and a bottle of riesling every year. 

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30 minutes ago, albireo_double said:

Best is to speak with your dealer. My guys in Vienna persuaded Wetzlar to fix a lens for me for free that I'd purchased back in 2012. In fact, all four of my failed lenses have been fixed for free. Having said this, I am a loyal customer, if there is one (S007 with 7 native lenses, SL with three native lenses, M10....plus a list of cameras / lenses previously purchased and sold). Thinking about it, Wetzlar should not only be fixing all my lenses for free without kibitzing, they should also be sending me a Christmas card and a bottle of riesling every year. 

I’m all about good dealer relationships, always encouraging it here, not just for the S. But I know of at least one reputable US dealer that stopped stocking the S in part because of its own frustrations dealing with Leica on responsiveness to S customer issues.  

Forum comments from US and European customers regarding S service issues (timing and/or cost) have varied, even with dealer involvement.  The issue is consistency and fairness, regardless of location or perceived customer loyalty, at least when it comes to repairs resulting from a faulty product.  This is not something that should require dealer ‘schmoozing’.

Jeff

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On 4/30/2019 at 4:20 PM, xiaubauu2009 said:

you can use all the AFC?

The S adaptor L does NOT support autofocus on the Panasonic S or S1R. Manual focus only but the electronic focus aids and exposure modes work fine. I assume that's what you mean as this is the S section of the forum.

As stated above SL lenses are completely compatible.

Gordon

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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