Leica Q2 or rx1r2?

[DexL]

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Moving from RX1rii to Q2 so no going back.  Sony has great IQ but Q2 is so much more fun to use.  In addition to what others have stated, Sony is also slow to boot up and no firmware updates ever... kind of lets you know how much Sony cares for this type of customer base.  

[nariza7]

i def enjoy using the leica q over rx1r because of the available evf(not popup) and overall system. but i just wish the leica was smaller. it’s a bit big/bulky compared to rx1r and it’s not as easily packable into a backpack as rx1r. i brought the rx1r to malaysia and it felt like i was carrying a camera that doesn’t get noticed easily whereas the leica q feels big enough to stand out. image quality wise i don’t think i can tell them apart unless side by side since both have great results. if sony releases rx1riii next week, i may have to consider that

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[nariza7]

So my pre ordered Leica Q2 is going to be delivered to the store, and I have some time to decide between cancelling my pre order while going with a used Rx1rii AND sticking to receiving the Leica Q2. I'm still stuck deciding though. I will wait until after the Tuesday sony announcements to make final decision (in case rx1riii is released)

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The rx1rii image quality and small size are the main selling points for me since I like taking photos both in good lighting and bad lighting, and I'd prefer carrying less overall, since Ill be out with a baby for the most part (under 1 year old). I'm used to sony menus due to a7rii, so thats not an issue for me as long as I can change aperture, iso, and shutter speed quickly with the custom buttons. Just a little bit worried that the handling of it is really bad, like struggling AF, slow start, slow taking pictures, shorter battery which requires more batteries to carry, etc. I've used an rx1r and I thought that was great, minus the really slow AF and no convenient evf (not external). Also worried that rx1rii is hard to get non blurry images at 1/125 without stabilization for 42mp. It seems like with the rx1rii, its hard to get rid of since people still like keeping it after having Leica Q, or people sell it and buy it back.

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The Leica Q2's bigger size(close to a7rii) and lower low light ability is what's making it harder for me to stick with it. I've had the Leica Q, and with the shots I took indoors, the quality wasn't as good in sharpness and color (though it was 24mp, so sharpness would be diff compared to a7rii's 42mp). I am just looking forward to 47mp, stabilization, somewhat weather proofing, nicer experience, and 4k for quick clips (though maybe unusable if af is bad).

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Current decision thought process:

1) Cancel Leica Q2 and use less than half of those funds for rx1rii. (due to sony new releases, seems people ppl are selling more sony stuff, and rx1riii might be announced)

-then save the rest for future purchases (a7siii?)

-issue is that if i want to get an rx1rii, i have to wait for a well tested non-decentered copy to show up, which might not be too bad if people start selling their rx1rii for new sony releases coming up.

2) Go with leica q2 for now and decide from there.

-possibly buying a good sharp copy for the rx1rii still, as a small everyday carry. 

-if a7siii comes out, I usually still wait some time to buy since sony prices drop quite fast usually (though this S line might be different).

 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by nariza7

[DexL]

Q2 is more fun to use for my style of shooting.   Low light is about the same but Sony IQ is right there with Q2 and dynamic range seems wider.  Both are good at what they do... just like the Q2 minimalist approach better ... more camera than computer.  

[nariza7]

yeah, so the second time I purchased an rx1r, i didn't find it fun to use at all which is why i sold it again. I enjoyed the Leica Q though, enough to only sell to put towards Q2. I'm just worried that if I end up picking up an rx1rii (when its really cheap, maybe after rx1r3 announced), ill end up using that completely due to size convenience and lower price (since i might feel bad carrying a $5k camera everywhere) and neglecting my Q2

[Mr.Q]

Regarding RXRii vs Q, the difference in image quality is minute. It really boils down to size, handling and speed. I would forget the rest and stick to your priorities.

[Jared]

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Just look at the ergonomics and focal length in making your decision.  Nothing else matters for the vast majority of uses.

Do you want a camera that is larger and handles better?  Or smaller but a bit more fiddly?  Do you want 28mm or 35mm?  Keep in mind cropping to 35mm with the Q is actually quite practical, especially with the Q2.

All the other differences are really minor nuances compared to the above.  

[lucerne]

Nariza

i think you are chasing rainbows and you appear to go through this routine often.  Neither body is perfect and progress will be made with the next releases by Sony and Leica.    Then you’ll have to start your evaluations all over again.  The differences are physical and the image differences almost indiscernible.   Whichever one you have committed to buy (because you evaluated it and were satisfied) should be the end of the story.    Use it to make pictures, not to compare with the one you rejected.  You’ll drive yourself nuts!

By the way.....  what is the extreme shooting environment you face that requires you to get even more low light capabilities.    I have shot the M9 in such lighting that I was three stops short, the preview was black, yet it developed in  Lightroom for perfect results.

lets see some photos truly worthy of either body.  

Edited July 21, 2019 by lucerne

[nariza7]

yeah its driving me nuts. If only the Leica Q2 were cheaper since that price is just making me think what I could be getting instead with it (rx1r2 + $3k). I just want a camera I can bring out to rely on for full frame stills, and both do that well, though the rx1r2 is easier to bring out since its cheaper and small while the Leica Q2 might not fit my crossbody bag well and makes me worry due to price. I might just go rx1r2 to keep it more portable since I do want to pair it with some vid cam.

As for low light, I just want to be able to take clean pictures on casual indoor events where sometimes there's just lower light for ambience, and I dont want to bother the host or something. Sometimes it was just taking pictures of my baby and didnt want to make the room too bright. I was ok with the a7rii and an f2.8 lens setup usually since the sensor is great at pulling up exposure well.

[Leica Guy]

I don’t know about the Rx1R2. I do know about the Q and now the Q2. It was an expensive upgrade for me. About $2500 moving from the Q to Q2 plus accessories. When It was introduced I went into deep analysis and vacillated for two days after intro before finally ordering from B&H. Those two days cost me to not have delivery prior to a month long trip to Europe. Dumb! I finally received mine in May. I absolutely could not be more delighted. Its a better camera than the Q in every way and the Q is a great camera. The minimalist design really appeals to me. The camera gets out of the way and I experience the pure joy of photography. Yes, $5K is a lot of camera to carry around. I’m very past that now and just enjoying the experience. It’s insured. Decide which one and don’t look back. The camera is not the limiter in you taking memorable photos. That is between your ears. Good luck! 

[nariza7]

Oh may I ask how you insured it?

[Leica Guy]

32 minutes ago, nariza7 said:

Oh may I ask how you insured it?

It’s the VPP (Valuable Personal Property) rider on my homeowners policy. I’ve never filed a claim, but I’m told the coverage is really good. If the camera is lost, stolen or badly damaged, it’s covered. I cannot remember if its got a deductible or not. Maybe $500. Since I have an Arte de mano case, I also included that in the value. I assume most major homeowners insurance companies have similar coverages available. 

[lucerne]

2 hours ago, nariza7 said:

yeah its driving me nuts. If only the Leica Q2 were cheaper since that price is just making me think what I could be getting instead with it (rx1r2 + $3k). I just want a camera I can bring out to rely on for full frame stills, and both do that well, though the rx1r2 is easier to bring out since its cheaper and small while the Leica Q2 might not fit my crossbody bag well and makes me worry due to price. I might just go rx1r2 to keep it more portable since I do want to pair it with some vid cam.

As for low light, I just want to be able to take clean pictures on casual indoor events where sometimes there's just lower light for ambience, and I dont want to bother the host or something. Sometimes it was just taking pictures of my baby and didnt want to make the room too bright. I was ok with the a7rii and an f2.8 lens setup usually since the sensor is great at pulling up exposure well.

Nariza7

 

“ just want to be able to take clean pictures on casual indoor events“

I’m  sorry, but I’m sensing some lack of knowledge here.  

All cameras take photos.  You are considering just two.  Sony and Leica.  These are NOT entry level cameras. That’s why they are expensive.  Leica especially, but they aren’t going to reduce the current price any time soon.  Both will take magnificent pictures in most types of light.    If you don’t want to spend $3000 or more, you can find very good cameras from Olympus, Canon and Nikon.   Whatever you do, don’t keep changing.  Stick to one because you will lose 10-20% every time you switch.   Surprisingly, they also take good pictures of the type you are thinking of.  Why did you choose Leica. Was it because you read about low light capabilities. If it was, then you’ve misunderstood the reason for those debates.  However, The F1.7 lens on the Q1 and Q2 is specifically suited to low light situations so you would have no difficulties shooting people in an indoor room.  However, shooting fast moving children requires a greater depth of field, so the aperture needs to be closed down.

“Leica Q2 might not fit my crossbody bag well and makes me worry due to price”

Don’t worry about the camera fitting your existing bag.  Photographers acquire lots of bags as their equipment changes.  It’s part of the photography scene.   There isn’t any bag anywhere in the world that suits every situation.  Try a Peak Design 5.  Fits tightly across the back.  Waterproof, lightweight.

Maybe you are setting your sights too high.   The Q1 would be a good buy secondhand and I doubt you would notice any difference operationally.  

Another option is to use a smartphone.  In the U.K. you can buy a top huawei model with super lenses for £850 .   I think Trump has put restrictions on Americans buying this device, but no doubt when he gets his desired political solution that ban will be lifted. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by lucerne

[nariza7]

im just considering the two smallest full frame fixed lens cameras since I figured i'd be less tempted to go for acquiring lenses with interchangeable cameras, otherwise id have to see how the sigma fp is too (though might only be big lenses) or consider the sony a6#00 line(aps-c). I've tried olympus (great with nocticron, but its big), along with my a7rii which is great enough for low light in my opinion because of the sensor. The f1.7 is great on the leica, as well as the 35mmf2 on the rx1rii which is why I consider those quite similar minus the focal length. Both have great lens rendering.

i have tried many backpacks and still have pd 5l and tenba 7l which are great, but still too big on my daily outings which is why ive gone to a small crossbody pacsafe vibe 150.

i think smartphones nowadays are quite capable, but still limited in quality when it comes to low light or viewing on bigger screens. 

 

In the end, Im just wondering which situation I might enjoy more to take on in a crossbody bag (with gopro + osmo for video and 1 small camera for photos only)

1) rx1rii which should fit easily and has great image quality, but might be frustrating to use with its 42mp + lack of stabilization, 4 year or so outdated firmware which could have slow experience, etc. (but is around $2k used, so I can free up $3k). The rx1r was great to use since I can get solid images, but af was too slow and didnt have evf which im used to now, and didnt feel as satisfying to use after taking a pic.

2) Leica Q2 which I did enjoy the experience with Q1, but it might be harder to carry than the rx1rii and its dng files might not as be malleable as sony. Also with some issues like dust in evf, pixelation in evf, a little decrease in low light compared to Q1,  all of which I have yet to experience since I dont have Q2 yet. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by nariza7

[Jared]

8 hours ago, nariza7 said:

yeah its driving me nuts. If only the Leica Q2 were cheaper since that price is just making me think what I could be getting instead with it (rx1r2 + $3k). I just want a camera I can bring out to rely on for full frame stills, and both do that well, though the rx1r2 is easier to bring out since its cheaper and small while the Leica Q2 might not fit my crossbody bag well and makes me worry due to price. I might just go rx1r2 to keep it more portable since I do want to pair it with some vid cam.

As for low light, I just want to be able to take clean pictures on casual indoor events where sometimes there's just lower light for ambience, and I dont want to bother the host or something. Sometimes it was just taking pictures of my baby and didnt want to make the room too bright. I was ok with the a7rii and an f2.8 lens setup usually since the sensor is great at pulling up exposure well.

Based on this, the RX1R2 sounds perfect for you.  It’s smaller, less expensive, works fine in low light, and should give you everything you need!  Go for it, then (as others have mentioned) don’t look back.  While I love shooting with my Q2, it’s not like other brands and other cameras would produce inferior results.  It seems like you are comparing zero-to-sixty times on a city car—just not relevant.  The Sony is just fine for baby pictures and casual indoor shots.

[Jared]

5 hours ago, nariza7 said:

 

1) rx1rii which should fit easily and has great image quality, but might be frustrating to use with its 42mp + lack of stabilization, 4 year or so outdated firmware which could have slow experience, etc. (but is around $2k used, so I can free up $3k). The rx1r was great to use since I can get solid images, but af was too slow and didnt have evf which im used to now, and didnt feel as satisfying to use after taking a pic.

2) Leica Q2 which I did enjoy the experience with Q1, but it might be harder to carry than the rx1rii and its dng files might not as be malleable as sony. Also with some issues like dust in evf, pixelation in evf, a little decrease in low light compared to Q1,  all of which I have yet to experience since I dont have Q2 yet. 

1) 42 megapixels w/o image stabilization does not produce any more or less blurry results than 24 megapixels w/o stabilization.  Or 18.  Or 10 megapixels.  It’s just that it looks worse if you specifically zoom in to 100% as opposed to just cropping the picture the way you want.  The pop up EVF on the Rii is perfectly functional if a little gimmicky.  

2) DNG files from the Q2 are no more or less malleable than any other format.  How much you can “push and pull” a file depends on dynamic range, bit depth, and noise, not on anything else.  Dust in EVF has been mentioned by a couple people, but is hardly a widespread problem and would, obviously, be covered under warranty.  The pixelation in the EVF is just a trade off Leica has made in refresh rate vs. resolution.  It’s a common practice and is hardly unique to this camera. It’s a great EVF—I would expect you to have no problems.  As to the decrease in low light capabilities in the Q2?  If you compare it to the Q1 at similar resolution or similar amount of zooming (field of view, not zoom percentage), the two are quite similar.  Try down-sampling a Q2 file to 6000x4000 and you will find it is just as smooth as a Q1 file and holds a touch more detail/requires less sharpening.  

Not certain why you got rid of the Q1, but if you didn’t find it a match for your needs, the Q2 will be no better.  Honestly, the RX1Rii sounds like the better choice for you based on size.  Just buy it, learn it, and use it.

[Adz]

I would not be looking at the rx1r2, considering that it's a 4 year old model. Coming from a9 with excellent AF, I find the Q2 working reasonably well for AF. What I like is the fact I can switch to MF easily. It look a while for me to enjoy using the Q2, I must admit. I force myself to shoot with the Q2, having been so comfortable with real time tracking with the a9, and slowly accepting the Q2, and beginning to see the real value when I finally shoot in Dng. It's big file, but I will try to cull more. Causal photography, but the process of creating images with Q2 is fun and I am appreciating the smaller size compared to a9. No doubt rx1r2 is even smaller, but somehow, Q2 brings me back to what I find joy in photography, slowly working an image and nailing it to my standards. 

Shooting my dog is no joke with Q2, and I'm even considering a M10P actually. But that's for next time. Bottom line for me if you want to consider the rx1r2, maybe wait for the mk3 to come out, but I have no regrets getting the Q2, having used it for nearly a month. I'm looking forward to using it for my next trip, together with a pacsafe x17. 

[paulb33]

A few years ago, I chose the RX1RII over the Q.  Size was the main factor.  Now, I've got the Q2.  Weather sealing and battery life were the main factors.

I'm similarly interested in available light family portraits.  Here, The Q2 doesn't give me any more than the RX1RII.  Indeed, I find it somewhat lacking: the files are less flexible in LR, 28mm is just too wide for portraiture and it lacks Sony's wonderful eye detection.  Advantages of the Q2 here are the much better viewfinder and ease of use.

Bottom line: when you absolutely nail a shot with the Q2 (lighting & focus), the image quality is peerless.  But, as a newbie photographer this is a rare event indeed.  Moving to low light portraits, it's even rarer with the Q2.

The Q2 is more enjoyable to use and so the chances are higher that your photography will improve over time (and so you nail more killer shots).

Otherwise, only weather sealing and battery life are in the Leica's favour.

[brickftl]

On 4/15/2019 at 4:02 PM, paul.bridges.3388 said:

I particularly miss the ability to drop the RX1RII in my Barbour coat pocket.

yes but with what lens attached? Once you put a lens that's as fast as the Q2 with close to the same focal length on the RX, you end up with a big honking camera. I have the Sony A7iii, and the closest lens to the Q2 is the new 24/1.4 GM, a fabulous lens. But even though it's relatively decent sized compared to other Sony lenses, it's still much bigger than the Q2's 28mm lens. By the way, when I bought my original Q (used) I also bought a RXirii (used) and tested them together. Here's my verdict - Q over the RXirii.

 https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4124108

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[PaulB]

Having read the posts I see 2 solutions; Leica make a 35 mm Q (please), or Sony bring out a version 3 and get it up to date, the 2 is ancient now. Whichever comes first I'd be keen to buy.