Questions and Answers re S1 or S1R

[Stuart Richardson]

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Hi Peter, 

I have not found one yet. I tried in Berlin but they did not have it in stock. I will buy one, but I think with the Easter holiday it will not arrive until May, knowing Iceland.

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, BeuBu said:

Thanks Gordon. 

My FW version is 1.0 and I‘m using the M adapter T. But for my understanding it should be 100% identical with the M adapter L? Same Leica number, only another name?

After power-on I get the startup screen, which is asking for the focal length. But the attached M lens is not correctly recognized/proposed.

I didn‘t checked the Exif data by now. I will do it later, because I‘m travelling today. 

Uwe

The implementation is rather eccentric ...... and presumably because Panasonic have chosen not to implement 6 bit decoding from the TL adapter and a look up table in firmware. I'm not sure if that is because Leica won't let them use it or because Panasonic can't be bothered. There are some odd glitches ..... despite setting the correct FL the minimum shutter speed in A mode is rarely 1/f ...... usually more like 1/2f which is a nuisance. 

With ROM R lenses the situation is a bit better ..... at least the FL is automatically registered, but again the minimum shutter speed is rather odd. I seem stuck on 1/125 no matter what lens I attach ......

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

My M adaptor L does not ask me to set a focal length. It does so automatically. I tried five coded lenses and they all read the 6 bit code directly. I also have a M adaptor T (original one) but I have not checked to see if it works differently. Aperture shows as 0.0. IBIS works. I have been turning the camera off before changing lenses. I have not tried with the camera left on.

S adaptor L gives aperture/exposure but not AF. 

Novoflex adaptor EF/L gives auto exposure and exif but not AF. Lenses that work on my SL work on the S1R. Lenses that are problematic on the SL are problematic o the S1R. I might try a different adaptor. Works great with lenses like the TS lenses. Looking forward to getting the Sigma adaptor with AF.

Novoflex adaptor NikE/L works like the EF version. exposure and IS but no AF. Strangely my 70-200 f4 doesn't work (black screen, no shutter) but my 200-500 does.

Leica R adaptor M writes focal length information to the S1R. My R zooms also show different lengths as they are zoomed. My 80-200 shows 85-185 as the zoom range though. Apteture shows as 0.0.

Gordon

[BeuBu]

5 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

My M adaptor L does not ask me to set a focal length. It does so automatically. I tried five coded lenses and they all read the 6 bit code directly. I also have a M adaptor T (original one) but I have not checked to see if it works differently. Aperture shows as 0.0. IBIS works. I have been turning the camera off before changing lenses. I have not tried with the camera left on.

S adaptor L gives aperture/exposure but not AF. 

Novoflex adaptor EF/L gives auto exposure and exif but not AF. Lenses that work on my SL work on the S1R. Lenses that are problematic on the SL are problematic o the S1R. I might try a different adaptor. Works great with lenses like the TS lenses. Looking forward to getting the Sigma adaptor with AF.

Novoflex adaptor NikE/L works like the EF version. exposure and IS but no AF. Strangely my 70-200 f4 doesn't work (black screen, no shutter) but my 200-500 does.

Leica R adaptor M writes focal length information to the S1R. My R zooms also show different lengths as they are zoomed. My 80-200 shows 85-185 as the zoom range though. Apteture shows as 0.0.

Gordon

Thanks for the great summary, Gordon.

But, could I ask you to double check with the M Adapter T,  please?
If this is working like the M adapter L, I have an FW issue. If not, I would need an L adapter.

Thanks and regards,
Uwe

[Bonnitaet]

1 hour ago, BeuBu said:

Thanks for the great summary, Gordon.

But, could I ask you to double check with the M Adapter T,  please?

having the same issue, the Leica T to  L Adapter asks for the FL, I'd appreciate if you could double check, please.

Thanks and regards, Chris

[jrp]

I have found that sometimes I get asked and sometimes it gets it right.  I assume that it's a matter of getting the adapter on sufficiently tightly.

[thighslapper]

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I have 2 M-T adapters, both of which work reliably on the SL but neither transmit the FL to the S1R....... FOR IBIS PURPOSES.

The FL but not the lens details ARE recorded in the camera image info and in the EXIF. 

If your later M-L adapter works then it looks like Leica have changed something in later versions......

No matter what M lens I attach I seem to be stuck with a minimum exposure of 1/125 in A mode though ..... even if I choose the lens FL. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by thighslapper

[BeuBu]

I contacted Leica custumer care on the M-adapter T/L issue.

Let‘s see...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

What was working earlier for me is not working now with either adaptor. I have no idea why. 

However if I turn the camera on with either no lens or an AF lens on the camera and then attach the adaptor and lens the camera reads the focal length just fine.

If I turn the camera on with no lens I get the warning. I can dismiss it and then attach an adapted lens which also works fine. I can also change lenses (leaving the adaptor on the camera) as long as I leave the camera ON.

Works this way with both adaptors.

Weird.......

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, thighslapper said:

I have 2 M-T adapters, both of which work reliably on the SL but neither transmit the FL to the S1R....... FOR IBIS PURPOSES.

The FL but not the lens details ARE recorded in the camera image info and in the EXIF. 

If your later M-L adapter works then it looks like Leica have changed something in later versions......

No matter what M lens I attach I seem to be stuck with a minimum exposure of 1/125 in A mode though ..... even if I choose the lens FL. 

I think this is what I am seeing as well. You can change the minimum shutter speed in the auto ISO settings though. Mine are set to ISO 3200 and 1/60 and that's what mine are with M lenses.

Gordon

Edited April 16, 2019 by FlashGordonPhotography

[thighslapper]

These all sound like firmware glitches.

Any idea how to pass on the info to Panasonic ???

[digitalfx]

Can anyone share experiences with the video features and the difference between the S1 and S1R?

Ive tried searching for specs but am finding conflicting information. From my searches it appears the the S1 is better suited for video, but does it shoot full frame at 4K? Is it 10 bit or 8 bit? Can you lock the shutter speed to 1/48th when shooting 24fps? 

 

From what I've read log is not available yet, which is odd...im looking for a small solution to serve as a b camera option while traveling that can use my Leica M and L glass. This looked like it was it, but the more I read, the more doubts I have.

[Stuart Richardson]

Hi. I just started some experiments yesterday with my new S1, and i use video more as moving photographs for art pieces, so I am not super experienced in the requirements of real productions. I will tell you, however, what I have seen so far. I have a Video Devices Pix e5H as an external recorder. When set to 4k, 24 frames, the recorder receives in 10bit and the image is full frame. I had the shutter speed at 1/50th on manual, I do not recall seeing 1/48th, but it is possible that it is there somewhere in the settings.

As far as I understand it, 4k 60p uses a cropped frame, though I have not explored this yet. Again, as far as I understand, the Log profile and 4:2:2 output are coming in a paid firmware upgrade in the summer. So far, the video quality seems good in comparison with my A7S, but I do a lot of night video, and am trying to see which is better. In comparing ISO 80,000 (I know!) on both cameras, the A7S seems to have more sensitivity, but the S1 is not so far off. I would say at tamer ISOs like 12800 or 25600, they are both usable...at least for my purposes. In general, the camera gives a very good impression...solid, less frustrating menus, much much better battery life than the A7S, better handling, and better performance with M lenses. So far so good for me! 

[Stuart Richardson]

By the way, just as an aside, I did some tests versus my M10, and there is no question that M lenses perform better in the corners and edges on the M10 than they do on the S1. That said, I think with the lenses I have tried, 35mm 1.4 FLE, 75mm f2 APO and 90mm APO, they are all fantastic in general use, and sharp across the frame at medium apertures. I think for video, none of it is of concern, apart from perhaps wide open night videos, where you are likely better served by a native lens, at least if you are interested in cityscapes, landscapes etc, especially where you have lights in the edges, where you would be more likely to see the smearing. But for portraits, they look great.

I tried my 25mm Biogon and that had significant smearing and vignetting in the edges, even stopped down a bit, so I do not think I would use that one, other than on cropped video or stopped down at f11-22. A native lens would be much better for those wides angles.

Overall, the S1 seems to do a very nice job, and the detail on the high resolution mode shots with the 90mm lens is stunning, for example. At this point I can't wait until I get an S adapter L, as the camera itself is proving quite nice. I enjoy the color too, which is something I never quite did on Sony...I do prefer Panasonic's profiling over Adobe Color in lightroom, however. 

[digitalfx]

11 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 I had the shutter speed at 1/50th on manual, I do not recall seeing 1/48th, but it is possible that it is there somewhere in the settings.

Thanks!

1/50th is fine./..some cameras (CL) go into auto mode when you select video, and dont allow you to select a shutter speed. I have no idea what Leica was thinking when they did this...but they might as well just not give us video as the mode is absolutely worthless like this.

What about internal recording? is it 10 Bit?

[Stuart Richardson]

9 minutes ago, digitalfx said:

Thanks!

1/50th is fine./..some cameras (CL) go into auto mode when you select video, and dont allow you to select a shutter speed. I have no idea what Leica was thinking when they did this...but they might as well just not give us video as the mode is absolutely worthless like this.

What about internal recording? is it 10 Bit?

Yes, you can change the shutter speed in the manual video set up, seemingly without restriction. I tried it at 1/25th for very low light, and have made it much quicker for metering etc, just to check. In this regard it works similarly to the A7S. 

As for internal recording, right now the results out of camera seem very nice. There is a flat profile and a like Rec709 profile that look pretty good for video. Reading up on it, it seems that currently internal recording is 8 bit 4:2:0, but it is sending 10 Bit 4:2:2 to the recorder, but only up to 4K 30p. 4K 60p is an APS C crop, and when you send it via HDMI it is 10 bit, but on 30p. It seems like they are offering 10bit internal 4:2:2 for up to 4k 30p and 10 bit 4k 60p 4:2:2 over HDMI in the summer in their paid firmware upgrade. It will also include their full professional Vlog, which they say has two stops greater dynamic range than the V log L in the GH5.

 

Also, in my basic testing (again, don't quote me on it!), it looked better than the A7S at ISO 6400 via HDMI with both cameras. The A7S has slightly more gain, but the noise seems better controlled in the S1, along with it having better color and sharpness. I am comparing to the original A7S, and the profiles were not exactly the same, so please do not take it as fact, only that in my own limited testing, it seems to be as capable in moderately low lighting as the A7S if not more so, which considering all its other advantages, is pretty fantastic. The camera handles so much better too, at least to my taste, and it is a great change to not have to swap out multiple batteries every shoot...

Edited April 18, 2019 by Stuart Richardson

[digitalfx]

is there any advantage the S1R has over the S1 for video specifically?

[Stuart Richardson]

If you look at this page starting at number 4, they seem to do a decent job of pointing out the differences. https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/panasonic-vs-panasonic/s1-vs-s1r/

The S1 is generally better for video. It has fewer recording limits, better ISO performance and uses the full sensor for output up to 4k 30p. The internal specs are pretty much the same at 8 bit 4:2:0 right now, but the S1 will offer an upgrade in the future, and the S1R will likely not. The S1R will stay the same, and the S1 stands to get 10bit 422 internal in 4k30p and below, and 10bit 422 4k 50/60p over HDMI, along with the VLog profile. Perhaps more, but that is all they have confirmed so far.

The S1 has a recording limit of 30 minutes for 4k 60/50p and has no recording limit for 4k 30p and below, the S1R is 15min for 50/60p and 30minutes for 4k 24-30. 1080 is unlimited.

The S1 has more profiles for video.

 

Two potential advantages that the S1R has for video: you can use a 1.5x APS-C crop or 2x pixel to pixel crop for 4k in addition to the 1.1x. The S1 has the full sensor width or APS-C, not the 2x. The other is that apparently you can record 4k 50/60p in 1.1x crop, whereas you are stuck to APS-C with the S1. I do not have the S1R so I cannot confirm this.

In my own testing, the S1 is already outputting 10bit 4k 30p and below to my external recorder via HDMI. I am not sure about what sampling it is using (422 or 420), but when using the Pix E5h, it says that the video source is 10 bit...this is contrary to the website I linked, which says it should be 8bit.

I hope this helps...it is a lot to sort out.

[Chaemono]

How do I put the S1 in burst mode? 

Edit - found it. There is a lever underneath the mode dial. 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Chaemono

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[just4fun]

With the genuine Leica adapter, when focus, do you get the magnify pop up automatically like on SL ? or do you still need to manually hit a button to get it on screen?

Thanks

Sonny