Leica M11 wishlist? (Features)

[YourFather]

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Hi, I was wondering what is it you would like to see (features) in new M11.

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[Leicaiste]

 

[Jeff S]

And this, started even earlier...

Jeff

[pico]

6 hours ago, YourFather said:

Hi, I was wondering what is it you would like to see (features) in new M11.

You put forward the question. Was it just bait? Are you just sitting on your ass titillated by responses? Contribute! So you tell us what the M11 should be.

 

Edited April 9, 2019 by pico

[Peter Kilmister]

I think he'd be sitting on his arse unless he owns an ass, which is a Levantine equine animal. Look it up in the dictionary.

BTW, @picoI agree with you sentiments and the only quibble is pedantic but important for Levantine equine animals who get a raw deal in the USA. 😉

[YourFather]

10 hours ago, pico said:

You put forward the question. Was it just bait? Are you just sitting on your ass titillated by responses? Contribute! So you tell us what the M11 should be.

 

What a nice polite answer 😂 Well. I am doing a video series about Leica ( can be found here) and here I am just collecting opinions for my next video. Not sure what is wrong with that. I am also checking this post like once in 24 hours so I am sorry I am not glued to my computer and not responding every minute. I thought this forum is more chill than facebook but whatever.

Well thanks to everyone else for the posts

[evikne]

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My wishes and expectations:

• A quieter shutter, like the one in M10-P.
• A faster (electronic?) shutter would be nice, so I can get rid of my ND filters for fast lenses in bright light.
• I expect there will be more pixels. I don't need them, but others may do.
• More dynamic range is never a disadvantage.
• And if Leica manages to make a hybrid EVF/RF viewfinder it would be interesting. Eventually two separate versions, one with EVF instead of RF.

But unless a miracle happens, I will not be able to afford an M11 anyway. I'm not a typical Leica user. A lucky event enabled me to buy the M10, but that won't happen twice. 😉

[YourFather]

1 hour ago, evikne said:

My wishes and expectations:

• A quieter shutter, like the one in M10-P.
• A faster (electronic?) shutter would be nice, so I can get rid of my ND filters for fast lenses in bright light.
• I expect there will be more pixels. I don't need them, but others may do.
• More dynamic range is never a disadvantage.
• And if Leica manages to make a hybrid EVF/RF viewfinder it would be interesting. Eventually two separate versions, one with EVF instead of RF.

But unless a miracle happens, I will not be able to afford an M11 anyway. I'm not a typical Leica user. A lucky event enabled me to buy the M10, but that won't happen twice. 😉

Do you think. With the direction they take with the screen that they migth remove all the button in the back and leave it just as touch screen?

[evikne]

10 minutes ago, YourFather said:

Do you think. With the direction they take with the screen that they migth remove all the button in the back and leave it just as touch screen?

I hope not. That wouldn't be a real M in my eyes.

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb YourFather:

Do you think. With the direction they take with the screen that they migth remove all the button in the back and leave it just as touch screen?

+1. Touch screen only with a rear 40 MPx f/1.6 quad camera and OIS for selfies would be awesome.

[mike3996]

2 hours ago, evikne said:

My wishes and expectations:

• A quieter shutter, like the one in M10-P.
• A faster (electronic?) shutter would be nice, so I can get rid of my ND filters for fast lenses in bright light.
• I expect there will be more pixels. I don't need them, but others may do.
• More dynamic range is never a disadvantage. 
• And if Leica manages to make a hybrid EVF/RF viewfinder it would be interesting. Eventually two separate versions, one with EVF instead of RF.

But unless a miracle happens, I will not be able to afford an M11 anyway. I'm not a typical Leica user. A lucky event enabled me to buy the M10, but that won't happen twice. 😉

Steve Huff was very impressed about Panasonic S1's high-ISO performance. The files look very usable up to ISO 50k! If they use this sensor (24 megapixels) instead of the other one, I'd be very happy:

 

• Native ISO is 2 stops slower
• Great(er) DR

Combine this with the following wish list items:

• Mechanical shutter up to 1/8000 (although not very necessary if there's an electronic shutter)
• Use a quiet shutter mechanism like M10-P
• an optional electronic shutter (with the hybrid option like in Fujifilm/Leica Q)
• state-of-the-art pluggable EVF with fast readout

[evikne]

9 minutes ago, mike3996 said:

state-of-the-art pluggable EVF with fast readout

Yes, personally I would much prefer a state-of-the-art external EVF (an upgraded Visoflex). An internal EVF should never compromise on thickness, form factor and simplicity. And I think that would be hard to avoid.

[Nick Milner]

We definitely need filters like, you know, toy, selective colour, and that one that makes everything look like a miniature model. Oh, and a built-in projector is a must.

[YourFather]

1 hour ago, mike3996 said:

 

• Use a quiet shutter mechanism like M10-P

There is a lot of comments with - make it quieter. But isnt it kinda what makes it THE M? I mean I kinda like the sound 😊

[mike3996]

3 minutes ago, YourFather said:

There is a lot of comments with - make it quieter. But isnt it kinda what makes it THE M? I mean I kinda like the sound 😊

In my book, a camera can never be too quiet.

People loved film Leicas because of their quiet cloth shutters.

Edited April 10, 2019 by mike3996

[sblutter]

My wish for an M11 is that it come sooner!  I skipped the M10 b/c there's not much it can do my M240 can't, other than a few more stops in ISO.

I'd like to see higher rez b/c I often make large prints - like 60x40" and up

[xixi_gelly]

M9/M6 weight =/< 600g

[adan]

I've got one definite request. it's about the only thing that I'd bother to upgrade for - at least for 6-7 years.

IMPROVE THE CAMERA BODY FLARE-PROOFING. To at least the level of an M7. And at the expense of other features, if needed.

I have gone nuts the past year trying to find a 90mm lens that does not flare almost as unpredictably and badly as a 90TE - when used on the M10. Why 90's? Probably the specific angle of view and image-circle size - 75s and 135 also flare a bit more than on previous bodies, but less aggressively than 90s.

A little research shows me that Leica - in squeezing down the size of the M10 - has swiped a lot of "volume" out of the camera chamber to use for electronics and stuff. And this has put the floor, ceiling, and sides closer to the shutter opening, which allows spill from the lens image circle to bounce directly onto the sensor, instead of onto a black surrounding area.

Took this shot of M10's chamber compared to M7's (apologies for color noise and focus). Shows how much Leica has allowed "the walls to close in" in the M10. And also the M7/MP's baffle (which wouldn't be there if Leica didn't understand the danger of internal flare - and has been used since the M6!).

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Yeah, yeah, those surfaces are "black," but it's really just a charcoal gray, and at a glancing angle, it will reflect light just like a mirror.

Other mirrorless systems - Canon R, Nikon Z, Fuji X, even the Leica CL (less so, Sony Alphas) - all have both much shallower chambers (~5 mm - and yes, that is something Leica can't change in the M), and more spacing between the reflective walls and the shutter opening. Of course the APS-C cameras also have smaller sensors to begin with, which allows even more space  to "push back the walls" - the CL layout has a wonderful stepped "frame" to minimize internal camera reflections.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-z7/Z-NIKON-Z7-VS-SONY-A7R3-FRONT.JPG

https://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/5767-this-is-canon-s-most-important-camera-for-ten-years-hands-on-with-the-mirrorless-canon-eos-r

https://leicarumors.com/2017/11/21/leica-cl-camera-reviews.aspx/

My strong suggestions, in order of simplicity:

- install M7/film-style sheet-metal baffle - it's thin, doesn't take back space from the rest of the body

- better, blacker finish inside the camera (there's good stuff out there - not that expensive, either: https://www.culturehustleusa.com/products/black-v1-0-beta-the-world-s-mattest-flattest-blackest-art-material ) - p.s. thanks to our Pico for making me aware of Black 2.0.

- Ribbed, serrated or stepped walls, floor and ceiling to the chamber. Steal from the CL design as much as possible.

- continued miniaturization of electronics. I appreciate the M10 got "thin," and I know it was hard work - but now we need to take back some volume for the camera chamber.

- lower the floor (meter housing) especially - that's where the biggest chunk of space has been stolen, and is most susceptible to "sky/sun" flare (remember - lenses project the world upside down)

- if necessary - remove electronics needed for wifi and such - until such time as they can be miniaturized further.

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[Nick_S]

Here is my wish list:

- Reduce the weight from 660g to 600g so that the balance of the camera with lenses is the same as an M film camera (at least the M6 TTL).

- Shrink the size of the large monitor screen by making the viewing area borderless like modern mobile phones.

- In-camera remapping of dead pixels, rather than having to return the camera back to Leica.

The rest are nice to haves:

- If Leica have to offer a 47.3 MP sensor, then also offer a lower noise 24 MP version, like the Nikon Z range.

- The option to activate sensor-shift image stabilization to make optimal use of a 47.3 MP sensor at slower shutter speeds.

- Reintroduce the simplicity of the M9 stepped top-plate aesthetics. Do we need the homage to the M3's film rewind knob to set ISO values?

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Nick_S

[RexGig0]

The M10 was such a step forward, in high ISO performance capability, that It was a significant factor in my finally buying an M10, as my first Leica camera. The other significant factor was the ergonomics/user interface, especially the slimmer form factor and viewfinder better for my bespectacled eyes. Otherwise, I might have bought an M7 or an MP. The M10-P introduced a quieter shutter, and re-introduced the virtual horizon. These are nice refinements, though I have yet to decide whether to add an M10-P.

So, I have no wish list for a potential M11. I did not buy a Leica M10 with the idea of upgrading, but to keep it for the very long term.

I am not wishing for more an M11 with more MP. I have 50MP and 47MP DSLRs, but use my 16MP and 20MP DSLRs more often. (Nature/wildlife/birds.)