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How many of you would skip the CL and go straight to the M

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On 4/21/2019 at 5:54 AM, globalwander said:

Ditto! Since I bought the CL, my Q hasn’t been used. I was shocked by this. Never imagined an APS camera could render images as beautifully as my full frame Q. But it does and it’s smaller! 

+1. I now have to remind myself that I also have a Q--which is a problem, since I bought the CL to load up on longer focal lengths. I need to think seriously about swapping my Q for the TL 11-23.

I do believe that Q generally takes more dramatic and usually sharper photos. But are they better photos? My instinct is to grab the CL and I suppose that's my judgment about IQ. 

And I agree with all the above about the M10. If my eyes were only younger....Tests shot I've taken with it at a Leica store (while also testing the CL and SL and having my Q) left me speechless. To my eye, the M10 takes the best FF photos in the world. Full stop.

Edited by bags27

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15 minutes ago, bags27 said:

+1. I now have to remind myself that I also have a Q--which is a problem, since I bought the CL to load up on longer focal lengths. I need to think seriously about swapping my Q for the TL 11-23.

I do believe that Q generally takes more dramatic and usually sharper photos. But are they better photos? My instinct is to grab the CL and I suppose that's my judgment about IQ. 

And I agree with all the above about the M10. If my eyes were only younger....Tests shot I've taken with it at a Leica store (while also testing the CL and SL and having my Q) left me speechless. To my eye, the M10 takes the best FF photos in the world. Full stop.

No doubt the M10 files are the best.  There's no argument.  With Like-A-Look profiles in Lightroom, I can make my CL files either look incredibly close to an M10, or even better, film looks that really work. 

Word of caution with like-a-look profiles, they apply a TON of sharpening.  If I crop a photo, I have to remember to turn that stuff down or off or it will look over processed.  

In general, I did like the M10 files better... but I DO like that my wife will pick up the CL so I can get some photos with daughter AND me in the photo 🤣

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On 4/23/2019 at 4:17 PM, bags27 said:

+1. I now have to remind myself that I also have a Q--which is a problem, since I bought the CL to load up on longer focal lengths. I need to think seriously about swapping my Q for the TL 11-23.

I do believe that Q generally takes more dramatic and usually sharper photos. But are they better photos? My instinct is to grab the CL and I suppose that's my judgment about IQ. 

And I agree with all the above about the M10. If my eyes were only younger....Tests shot I've taken with it at a Leica store (while also testing the CL and SL and having my Q) left me speechless. To my eye, the M10 takes the best FF photos in the world. Full stop.

Good idea! The 11-23 is the last lens I need to complete the TL lens range. 

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On 4/21/2019 at 8:26 PM, faxao said:

I am afraid I do not agree 100% with your opinion. In my experience (M10, Q, MM1 and more recently the CL) there is still a quite relevant difference between the rendering of a full frame camera and the one from an APSC sensor.

Aside from the M's range finder experience (that I have found out to prefer better than the manual focusing one on the CL), the raw pics from the M/Q do give me much more flexibility in PP (mainly Lightroom, sometimes Photoshop) and the final results are IMHO superior.

The CL portability and versatility (i.e. possibility to use either M or TL lenses) makes it a great APSC body and one terrific travel camera don't get me wrong, but I still like more the final results I can obtain from the FF bodies. Just my 2 cents...

I think you’re right. It’s true that the full frame Q images have a pop that’s hard to beat. I will say that the CL in combination with the 35 TL 1.4 and 60 TL 2.8 can render astonishingly good images. You make a great point here and I appreciate the subtlety. 

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On 4/22/2019 at 5:12 PM, pebbles said:

I moved from an M10 to the Cl and have never regretted it. I found the M excessively heavy and printing to A3 with a 50mm Summicron no better quality than my Vario-Elmar. AND i have the advantage of a small zoom

I need to print! Thanks for the reminder and inspiration. 

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I see very very little difference between my SL, M-P 240, M-D 262, CL, and M9 photos. Which stands to reason because I use the same lenses on all of them, more or less, and capture only raw files so all of the rendering qualities are what suit me and have little to do with camera differences. I hated the M9 JPEG engine, the others all behave passably the same with theirs. 

I can't say that the Q/Q2 images I've seen look a heck of a lot different from any of the above. 

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I'll go back straight to the M only with a built in EVF , or never again

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Of two minds here. 

1) only like big sensors. Find the MM is closest to medium format quality, the M240 is good enough, but not quite the same. 

2) did a torture test with the CL, compared with the M240, and found very little difference. Almost not discernible. The newer sensor is remarkable.

The M10 is probably better yet. Maximum flexibility comes with the largest and most contemporary sensor, but there is also usage: with one lens on an M240, I tend to crop in post. Zooming with the CL means less post-cropping and yields more "used" sensor space. So is one cropping or not? 

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8 hours ago, geoffreyg said:

... So is one cropping or not? 

Generally not.  Perhaps I’m too old fashioned, but I don’t think cropping helps my photography at all.  As Paulmac and EionC observed in another thread, I try to pre-visualiuse, as Ansel Adams recommended.  When things are going well for me, I am familiar with the framing of the lens I have, I am capturing light, so contrast and composition are critical to me - watching a scene unfold, and thinking how I might capture that image.  Or not.

Cropping, huge MP and dynamic range, machine gunning and all the benefits of digital photography tend not to contribute to this process that much.  But perhaps that’s just the type of photography that interests me - sometimes just looking and appreciating a scene is enough, and often I am just too lazy to get myself into the position I need to and to think through the settings I need to capture the image that interests me.

EionC’s cycling photographs really hit a spot for me - I really appreciate what he is capturing and how he has done it.  Maybe if I spent as much time around a velodrome as he has, and less sitting on the couch, I might achieve something similar - I’d like to think so, but my priorities lie elsewhere for the moment - the new couch arrives next month ...

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13 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

When things are going well for me, I am familiar with the framing of the lens I have, I am capturing light, so contrast and composition are critical to me - watching a scene unfold, and thinking how I might capture that image.  Or not.

+1

This describes exactly my experience too.

I added a 'HaHa' emoji for the couch joke at the end

 

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Posted (edited)

Been there, done that.  Ended up with a CL.  I have had lots of cameras (just ask my wife!) Keep coming back to Leica because I bought into the mystique of the "Leica Look".  And I like to post here and need a Leica to do it!  I am "currently" happy with a CL(18-56 Vario-Elmar, Summaron 35mm f3.5 and a Summicron-C 40mm), a Type 109,  and a Ricoh GR iii. If anyone cares, I started with a Leica Digilux 2, and transitioned through the following: M8 (28 Summicron, 50mm Voigtlander f1.2, 90mm Summicron), Leica X-Vario, multiple versions of the D-lux, Leica Q,  and the M-240.  I currently "love the one I'm with".

Jim

Edited by jpreisch

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I am recently convert to the Leica CL from the M and then Q and I couldn't be happier. It is a gem.

Cheers, Terry

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