Paulus Posted April 22, 2019 Share #61 Posted April 22, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Am 20.4.2019 um 09:12 schrieb Paulus: Has it? No question mark? No " IMO or "IMHO " ? A statement based on what? The M 10 resembles the M 240 in looks ( the M 10 is only a few mm less thicker than the M 240, hardly visible on a distance of two meters ). The M 240 derived from the looks of the M6 TTL or maybe M7. The M5 was a newly designed camera not only inside... ( Puts ) , but ( maybe too much ) also from the outside. . The M5 is a really fine camera to work with , some call it superb and in design a real user camera, but it reminded me to much of the DDR, like a Lada-car ( a spectacular car to drive in with cold weather , great heating system! ) maybe I wasn't the only one....Form follows function was the Wetzlar thought in those days. The M 240 design was the other way around, it was IMHO based on the looks of the M9 titanium , Walter de' Silva , a design like an Audi -car , omitting the glass from the viewfinder lines and replacing it with a led. The M 240 reminds me op my M6 . It reminds me of my MP. It doesn't at all remind me of the M5 I used al lot before I bought my own M6. In no way, I think, the M 240 will go down in history as a failure IMHO. The M 10 looks back to the past with it's thinner design and iso wheel, resembling in the past of the MP IMHO. In the picture you'll get the picture: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And I still do love my M ( typ 240 ) and a lot do: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 22, 2019 Posted April 22, 2019 Hi Paulus, Take a look here The M10 massive loss in resell value unprecedented?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted April 22, 2019 Share #62 Posted April 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, Paulus said: Is it? What makes the M 10 to me not a computer wrapped up to feel like a manual camera, is, that is is actually a manual camera. Viewfinder: Manual, Lens focus : manual. Shutter. I In a way, it's manual also in comparison with the M6 MP , because the only thing altered is the way we capture the light. The rest of the computer things are just to capture. Of course, the M7 did not have a " computer " but the electronics are already there to say :" it's not really a manual camera. When does a camera stop to be a manual camera? M4 , M5, M6? M7? M8? just say when... That’s a nice way to look at it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 22, 2019 Share #63 Posted April 22, 2019 I’ve used all my Ms essentially the same way since the 80’s; that is, manual settings and focus, rangefinder only, variations of the same VF, lenses from 28-90 (primarily 35/50). Once I stick in the film or SD card, the rest is looking for pics. Sure there are changes between models, but these are icing on the cake. And of course there are some distinctions between film vs digital, but these don’t change my basic shooting approach. Even my print workflow retains the same essential ingredients. As always, the most important tools remain between the ears. The rest is mostly left to forums. Jeff 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavbo Posted April 23, 2019 Share #64 Posted April 23, 2019 On 4/21/2019 at 4:05 AM, sblitz said: I want video capability, for the grandchildren. Manual focus on fast moving subject with no stabilisation? Wouldn't a mobile phone be better for the task? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted April 23, 2019 Share #65 Posted April 23, 2019 Stabilization isn’t going to do anything for you on a fast moving subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 23, 2019 Share #66 Posted April 23, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 5:26 PM, M10Alpine said: My take is that the M10 market is vastly oversaturated - looks like an almost new M10 is selling for about 5000€ - a very nice M10 that is two years might sell for just above 4000€. Is this common ? I mean the M9 - 240 etc did the price tank as badly as with the M10? Is Leica releasing too many editions too fast? Thoughts? Great news for anyone who wants to pick up a used M10, which is still a wonderful camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted April 23, 2019 Share #67 Posted April 23, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 hours ago, Gavbo said: Manual focus on fast moving subject with no stabilisation? Wouldn't a mobile phone be better for the task? I gather you don't shoot much video ...... manual focus is fine, set a high f stop with a 28mm lens and you have all the focus you need, as for stabilization that makes little sense since a video demands a moving subject -- otherwise i would take a picture! 🙂 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 23, 2019 Share #68 Posted April 23, 2019 Yes, but even if the subject is moving, one likes the background to remain stable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 23, 2019 Share #69 Posted April 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, jaapv said: Yes, but even if the subject is moving, one likes the background to remain stable. Here is what happens if we mess-up a pan. That's not six men! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/295777-the-m10-massive-loss-in-resell-value-unprecedented/?do=findComment&comment=3728064'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 23, 2019 Share #70 Posted April 23, 2019 2 hours ago, pico said: Here is what happens if we mess-up a pan. That's not six men! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I like your example. However, my post was responding to a video and moving subject remark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavbo Posted April 24, 2019 Share #71 Posted April 24, 2019 12 hours ago, sblitz said: I gather you don't shoot much video ...... manual focus is fine, set a high f stop with a 28mm lens and you have all the focus you need, as for stabilization that makes little sense since a video demands a moving subject -- otherwise i would take a picture! 🙂 I was referring to the use of a gimbal for stabilization and panning (like the one I have below) which is not really possible with a manual focusing device. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/295777-the-m10-massive-loss-in-resell-value-unprecedented/?do=findComment&comment=3728301'>More sharing options...
Gavbo Posted April 24, 2019 Share #72 Posted April 24, 2019 On 4/19/2019 at 5:47 PM, Paulus said: I wonder if you say this from your own experience. It's hard to believe that you find the M 240 " the least special " . It's IMHO , and I have used them all and still do, the most mature camera of the M's in that time. Of course the M 10 is less bulky, but that doesn't make the M 240 not a special camera today and certainly not the moment it appeared. It was worth the money I payed for it and I will not sell it after the 5 years of daily use. I use the M 10 and the M 240 next to each other now and although the M 240 is thicker, one can use them without hesitation next to another. The used market - The steepest depreciation curve amongst all Digital M's. Used M240 can be had for very similar M9 price which is a generation (4 years) older. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted April 24, 2019 Share #73 Posted April 24, 2019 vor 8 Minuten schrieb Gavbo: The used market - The steepest depreciation curve amongst all Digital M's. Used M240 can be had for very similar M9 price which is a generation (4 years) older. I don't believe I saw the similarity in price on the used market between the M9 and the M 240 . The M 240 sells for more,.. Let I refrase this: In the ads, you can find prices for an M9( p) that are higher than the M 240 (p ) , but so can you find prices for Leica lenses which are way above the used market price. The fact that these ads show these prices for some products will not say that they will sell these products for these prices. At least in the European market I believe the prices of ( the same quality ) M 9 and M 240 differ about €800,- /€900,- If you have other proof, I would certainly want to see this and learn from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 24, 2019 Share #74 Posted April 24, 2019 16 hours ago, pico said: Here is what happens if we mess-up a pan. That's not six men! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Why are those guys all wearing the same clothes? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted April 24, 2019 Share #75 Posted April 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Gavbo said: I was referring to the use of a gimbal for stabilization and panning (like the one I have below) which is not really possible with a manual focusing device. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! A lot more equipment than necessary for shooting the grandchildren running about 🙂 Now if I was shooting a film or a commercial .......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 24, 2019 Share #76 Posted April 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Gavbo said: The used market - The steepest depreciation curve amongst all Digital M's. Used M240 can be had for very similar M9 price which is a generation (4 years) older. It's possible the M9 (with replaced sensor) is more valued by used camera buyers because of its CCD sensor. I've noticed the price of used MM1 bodies in good condition also going higher lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted April 24, 2019 Share #77 Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) vor 54 Minuten schrieb fotografr: It's possible the M9 (with replaced sensor) is more valued by used camera buyers because of its CCD sensor. I've noticed the price of used MM1 bodies in good condition also going higher lately. It's possible and this should be a readable explanation, but I cannot see this in Dutch or German ads. Even with the somewhat " pricy" priced item at Meister's one sees a difference between the M 240 and the M9. Only I one compares M9 P with an M240 there is less difference, but that comparisson would not be between equals. On the Dutch market even less spayed for an M9. About € 2000,- and the M 240 about € 2500/2700. somewhat more if it's a chrome version. :https://www.meister-camera.com/de/sh_leica_m/72 https://www.leica-store-muenchen.de/de/gebraucht/15225/leica-m9-schwarz https://www.leica-store-berlin.de/de/sh_leica_m/72 Edited April 24, 2019 by Paulus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavbo Posted April 24, 2019 Share #78 Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Paulus said: I don't believe I saw the similarity in price on the used market between the M9 and the M 240 . The M 240 sells for more,.. Let I refrase this: In the ads, you can find prices for an M9( p) that are higher than the M 240 (p ) , but so can you find prices for Leica lenses which are way above the used market price. The fact that these ads show these prices for some products will not say that they will sell these products for these prices. At least in the European market I believe the prices of ( the same quality ) M 9 and M 240 differ about €800,- /€900,- If you have other proof, I would certainly want to see this and learn from it. Couple of examples from the same dealer in Hong Kong. Stock level may play a part on their pricing but generally seeing the same trends for other dealers too. https://www.mkkcamera.com/leica-m9-ccd-black-digital-rangefinder-camera-871/ https://www.mkkcamera.com/leica-m240-cmos-10771-silver-digital-rangefinder-camera-146/ Edited April 24, 2019 by Gavbo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted April 24, 2019 Share #79 Posted April 24, 2019 5 hours ago, fotografr said: Why are those guys all wearing the same clothes? They're sextuplets and their mom always dressed them identically? Pete. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 24, 2019 Share #80 Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, fotografr said: I've noticed the price of used MM1 bodies in good condition also going higher lately. They came down several hundred dollars on average in the prior year (confirmed by two dealers), on both sales and trades. Haven’t inquired lately. Jeff Edited April 24, 2019 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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