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New M8 Firmware Preview 27/07/07!!! Laundry list

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If I don't have delayed shutter recocking (quiet mode) and menu-based lens selection by Friday at noon, so help me I'll, I'll, I'll...

 

...well I guess I'll just keep hoping for the next firmware release.

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Guest guy_mancuso
I think that it'd be so much better to see small updates frequently than monolithic releases every 3-4 months. It would make the M8 more "organic".

 

Maybe this has been discussed before, but does anyone know who's doing the actual software dev for the M8's firmware? Did Leica hire inhouse or are they outsourcing?

 

I agree the small frequent releases are also better for leica becuase they can see if it affects anything else very quickly. The big ones when adding many things at once take a lot more testing.

 

Now the second part of your question is interesting and a little hard for me to answer .Let's just call it leica wants more control over there destiny than relying soley on vendor services, which for us the end user is better anyway. Certain things will not change like mechanical stuff but software , firmware and such leica wants to control that

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If I don't have delayed shutter recocking (quiet mode) and menu-based lens selection by Friday at noon, so help me I'll, I'll, I'll...

 

Menu based lens selection. That's a big one. If I understand correctly, that will reduce the "need" for coded lenses. But would that be somethiing Leica would want or no? I know I sure as heck want it, but would it adversely affect some areas of Leica's market?

 

I find my self trying to get "inside Leica's corporate head" and not succeeding. Any thoughts?

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I like the idea of frequent updates. If they're not doing extensive beta testing, though, it would be a good idea to keep a copy of the most recent firmware on your computer just in case something like the DMR FW v1.2 fiasco happens.

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Menu based lens selection. That's a big one. If I understand correctly, that will reduce the "need" for coded lenses. But would that be somethiing Leica would want or no? I know I sure as heck want it, but would it adversely affect some areas of Leica's market?

 

Who knows what they are thinking? They may as well face the fact that they are not going to sell a bag full of new lenses at current prices to every M8 purchaser, and it seems to me the coding of older lenses at greater than expected volume has been a headache for them. Add to that the other non-Leica options available to code both non-Leica and older Leica lenses and I think adding the menu option would be an overall plus for Leica and their customers.

 

Now whether or not there is a slight chance we will ever see those menus, I do not know.

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There is already a hardware correction for dust on the sensor - shoot wide open

 

Ya, thats been my solution too. And you don't have to shot wide open to eliminate dust on the sensor. I find that F5.6 or faster does a good job of eliminating all the dust spots on even the dirtest sensor

 

Rex

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... I think adding the menu option would be an overall plus for Leica and their customers.

 

That's what I figured too. And if coded lenses can set the parameters, my guess is that implementing the same thing via a menu should be relatively simple. But it hasn't happened, and that's why I'm thinking there could be some marketing issues involved. But since a lot of users have already taken the coding job out of Leica's hands (i.e. hand coding, codable adaptors), maybe they'll be prepared to just let us have our lens menu. Sure hope so.

 

Cheers.

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Let's just call it leica wants more control over there destiny than relying soley on vendor services, which for us the end user is better anyway. Certain things will not change like mechanical stuff but software , firmware and such leica wants to control that

 

Well, I think that's good news for everyone and is probably the only way that we'll see frequently released incremental updates. If Leica is restricted by contract terms with an outside vendor, then their ability to be responsive to bug fix and functionality enhancement requests from the user community would be seriously hampered.

 

If they control their own destiny, so to speak, then they just have to worry about carefully managing revision control and listening carefully to user feedback. After all, aren't all of us M8 users beta testers, anyway? Not that I mind... I'd rather have an evolving M8 than no M8 at all.

 

Looking forward to Friday's release...

 

John

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Well, After all, aren't all of us M8 users beta testers, anyway? Not that I mind... I'd rather have an evolving M8 than no M8 at all.

 

Looking forward to Friday's release...

 

John

 

That is true with every Digital (Computer controlled) camera on the market. From P&S to the top top top of the line 35mm>MF>LF digital cameras.

They are all a work in progress.

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I agree the small frequent releases are also better for leica becuase they can see if it affects anything else very quickly. The big ones when adding many things at once take a lot more testing.

 

Now the second part of your question is interesting and a little hard for me to answer .Let's just call it leica wants more control over there destiny than relying soley on vendor services, which for us the end user is better anyway. Certain things will not change like mechanical stuff but software , firmware and such leica wants to control that

 

 

Sorry to disappoint you guys...

 

Read this Testreports

 

Under "Sensor Issues" you can read "The sensor is made by Kodak and has as one of its ancestors the Olympus E1 sensor architecture. The software is written by a German company."

 

By the way, "The body of the M8 is a Solms design, made in Portugal."

 

I must go now. Time to go to swimm. Happy holidays

 

ArtZ

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I think that when you spend the amount of money that an M8 costs, not to talk about the lenses, you should expect a matching level of functionality and quality.

 

A menu that allows for the manual selection of lenses is definitely something I would expect to have.

 

The single act of purchasing an M8 body has already proven that the owner is not a cheapskate and is looking for quality.

 

To force someone to send otherwise fine lenses off for months to be coded seems ridiculous and punitive.

 

I would send lenses in because ultimately the convenience to have a lens properly coded is worthwhile, but I have non Leica lenses, like the CV15, that Leica will not code, and older Leica lenses that I do not feel necessary to code.

 

A manual setting for these will go a long way towards good will on Leica's part and will make me more likely to buy a Leica lens for the quality that made me buy the M8 in the first place.

 

Anything less would be a cheap trick on their part.

 

Lastly, being a software developer myself, frequent small updates that spell out what has changed, is a far better solution.

If the update does something I really want, I will go through the effort of updating my M8s, if not I can wait for the next release and decide then.

 

I think the key word here is "quality". Provide quality service for your quality products and people will spend more rather than less.

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Guest guy_mancuso
Sorry to disappoint you guys...

 

Read this Testreports

 

Under "Sensor Issues" you can read "The sensor is made by Kodak and has as one of its ancestors the Olympus E1 sensor architecture. The software is written by a German company."

 

By the way, "The body of the M8 is a Solms design, made in Portugal."

 

I must go now. Time to go to swimm. Happy holidays

 

ArtZ

 

Well very true the sensor is Kodak and they will always be buying the sensor from vendors unless they have a billion dollars to start a CCD factory this will always be the case. Metal machining will also be done by vendors and such . Leica will not invest millions in milling equipment when the vendors they use today produce exactly to there specs. Anything like this that takes huge investments that will not change . But software and firmware although vendored out today to buy the technology immediately that will change and leica does not have to invest millions in this . Mostly hire nice warm body engineers to develop and do more R&D in this area and produce under Leica's control on the functionality of there camera's . This part is already being done and exactly what we want as users and what leica wants to control there end use. Much easier to do it yourself than use a middle man when it comes to his stuff.

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I think that when you spend the amount of money that an M8 costs, not to talk about the lenses, you should expect a matching level of functionality and quality.

 

A menu that allows for the manual selection of lenses is definitely something I would expect to have.

 

The single act of purchasing an M8 body has already proven that the owner is not a cheapskate and is looking for quality.

 

To force someone to send otherwise fine lenses off for months to be coded seems ridiculous and punitive.

 

I would send lenses in because ultimately the convenience to have a lens properly coded is worthwhile, but I have non Leica lenses, like the CV15, that Leica will not code, and older Leica lenses that I do not feel necessary to code.

 

A manual setting for these will go a long way towards good will on Leica's part and will make me more likely to buy a Leica lens for the quality that made me buy the M8 in the first place.

 

Anything less would be a cheap trick on their part.

 

Lastly, being a software developer myself, frequent small updates that spell out what has changed, is a far better solution.

If the update does something I really want, I will go through the effort of updating my M8s, if not I can wait for the next release and decide then.

 

I think the key word here is "quality". Provide quality service for your quality products and people will spend more rather than less.

 

 

I think this is a very good point!

 

If you ask an engineer what means Quality?, he will probably say it’s the fact of not going back thru the production processes to correct problems, bugs and/or misconception issues.

 

A good quality product is a something which fully accomplishes the use and the specifications described at conception. If there’re quality procedures is just to obtain the results expected without expending extra money, wasting time and users/customers discontentment.

 

I wouldn’t say this applies to with our M8s.

 

Of course, we all love them (for many other reasons) but in terms of engineering, we cannot seriously say our beloved M8s are high quality products… You only need to read all the problems, issues, bugs, etc. posted here. How many bodies and lenses have travelled from your countries back to Solms (or NJ)? How many bodies have been exchanged from our dealers?

 

“Leica , My Point of View”

 

PS: As far as I have paid a lot on money for Leica equipment, I think I have the right to give my opinion, even if it's not what you would like to hear. Probably someone will accuse me be paid for competitors (happened in the past) because that’s a very easy thing to say. My opinion engages only myself.

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I think this is a very good point!

 

If you ask an engineer what means Quality?, he will probably say it’s the fact of not going back thru the production processes to correct problems, bugs and/or misconception issues.

 

A good quality product is a something which fully accomplishes the use and the specifications described at conception. If there’re quality procedures is just to obtain the results expected without expending extra money, wasting time and users/customers discontentment.

 

I wouldn’t say this applies to with our M8s.

 

Of course, we all love them (for many other reasons) but in terms of engineering, we cannot seriously say our beloved M8s are high quality products… You only need to read all the problems, issues, bugs, etc. posted here. How many bodies and lenses have travelled from your countries back to Solms (or NJ)? How many bodies have been exchanged from our dealers?

 

“Leica , My Point of View”

 

PS: As far as I have paid a lot on money for Leica equipment, I think I have the right to give my opinion, even if it's not what you would like to hear. Probably someone will accuse me be paid for competitors (happened in the past) because that’s a very easy thing to say. My opinion engages only myself.

 

Hmmm, compared to Apple, IBM, MIcrosoft, Mercedes Benz or BMW - all of whom have much bigger markets and budgets, I think I hear just about the same amount of complaints from users. So my question would be - where are these 'high quality' products you speak of?

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Sorry to disappoint you guys...

 

Read this Testreports

 

Under "Sensor Issues" you can read "The sensor is made by Kodak and has as one of its ancestors the Olympus E1 sensor architecture. The software is written by a German company."

 

By the way, "The body of the M8 is a Solms design, made in Portugal."

 

I must go now. Time to go to swimm. Happy holidays

 

ArtZ

 

That test report was written in September of 2006, almost a year ago. The firmware part of it is not really relevant today. IIRC the original company writing the firmware either quit, was fired by Leica or went out of business (pick one) and in any event they are not involved with anything Leica today.

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high quality:

I constantly ask myself:

 

If Leica reads this forum, and if people send in new lenses for calibration because of back/frontfocus -> why cant Leica install a quality control which checks each lens if the focus accurancy is ok? They seem to be able to check it if you send a lens in, so why not do it with new lenses?

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high quality:

I constantly ask myself:

 

If Leica reads this forum, and if people send in new lenses for calibration because of back/frontfocus -> why cant Leica install a quality control which checks each lens if the focus accurancy is ok? They seem to be able to check it if you send a lens in, so why not do it with new lenses?

 

More then likely that is done during assembly but whoever is doing the assembly just doesn't get it and some go out misalligned.

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There is already a hardware correction for dust on the sensor - shoot wide open

 

Yes, it's a great solution.... when you just don't have to control DOF!!

 

I understand your hirony, but I really need this improvement...

 

It's just boring sometimes those little or bigger points....

 

cheers....

maurizio

 

MAURIZIO BEUCCI.com - Official web site

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Hmmm, compared to Apple, IBM, MIcrosoft, Mercedes Benz or BMW - all of whom have much bigger markets and budgets, I think I hear just about the same amount of complaints from users. So my question would be - where are these 'high quality' products you speak of?

 

Excellent point. I bought a BMW X5 in its 2nd model year. My file of service receipts from that car was about an inch thick from recalls and general broken stuff. However, I loved that car and definitely considered it a quality product. The Dell Axim X51v I'm writing this on had its share of problems (2 replacements, extremely broken firmware), but it's still the best thing out there for what I need.

 

My point is that just because a sophisticated product requires field replacement, upgrade, or repairs it doesn't mean that product is flawed or not "quality". In my opinion, the real measure is how well the manufacturer and its agents take ownership of and resolve these issues and how well the product performs its intended function.

 

John

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