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andrea-i

fair price of a used old sensor M9?

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If you reckon it's worth buying one at all, considering sensor replacements might as well be over by the time an M9 with a sensor replaced in 2014 does show signs of corrosion, what you think should be a fair price?

I think I would buy one in the 800 euros mark taking in account a future expense of 1500 euros or failure if no more sensors are available after a couple of years of use of the camera.

There are still a ton of M9s around priced at 1800+ with old sensors, and I feel like offering the sellers 800 euros will give them a heart attack, yet I don't think these cameras should go for more than that all things considered (reason why I'd keep my M9 if that was the case).
Your take?
 

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Just now, jdlaing said:

What you are willing to pay may not necessarily be what it is worth.

of course, hence my question, what do people think would be worth for an M9 with the old sensor prone to corrosion?

If the replacement is currently priced at 1500, +800, that gets you past most of the M9 offerings with a replaced sensor.
Again, my guts feeling is that most people willing to sell but stuck with the old sensor will eventually either sell to someone who does not now about the corrosion, or bail and keep the cameras.

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Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

On eBay, people seem prepared to pay around £800 for an M9 with a corroded sensor (but I get the impression that these people do not know about the recent price rise for sensor service).

Some stores would probably pay a lot less, if they buy it at all, given the hassle and cost involved.

M9s with a new sensor from an authorised dealer can be had for around £2K, so I would not pay more than £400.

 

 

 

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This is why some are adding "lowballers will be ignored".

If sensor shows no issues, why seller should drop one grand for your future use? What your future use has to do with clean at this moment sensor?

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Sellers don't have to drop their price at all... if they don't want to sell it.

Nobody in their right mind (and fully informed about the sensor situation) would buy an M9 with an old sensor unless there was a substantial discount. 

Would you?

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I think it's really up to the seller and buyer eventually, I just wanted to check here if me telling a seller that my value for an M9 with old sensor is around 800 euros is offensive.
Of course people who bought that camera for thousands of euros will probably feel like it's not worth selling at that price, it makes total sense. But I don't think 800 euros is a low ball for something that will most likely need 1500 euros extras if lucky.
 

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It would be offensive. A buyer does not set the price for the seller. He only chooses whether to buy or not.

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What something is worth is a complex question. My take on any digital camera of any 'quality' (which you might consider as of 'professional' status although the word is badly abused) is that from new it should have a viable service 'life' of 10 years (many will exceed this but I think that looking at their cost over 10 years is as good a way to figure their viability as any). Given this scenario, buying a used one means figuring out its value based on how much of this 'life' it has left. So a 5 year old M9 is halfway through its 'life' by my reckoning. But add into this the sensor problem (which may or may not occur) and you have an additional variable which skews the value.

So a used M9 with no signs of sensor corrosion should have its value based on how much you are prepared to pay for it partway through its life (50% after 5 years?) less something more  because it might develop sensor problems. But it may not actually ever develop sensor troubles so how much should it be devalued by? Certainly not the cost of a replacement sensor which is simply too high a figure to apply. I have seen M9s with original sensors for under £1k but generally they are significantly higher. Personally, if I needed or wanted another M9 I'd probably figure that one with an original sensor would be worth spending up to say £1200ish for depending on age/actuations/condition as ever, one with an already replaced sensor perhaps another £500 but again depending on condition. But its really up to you as the buyer. The cost of a replacement sensor is high and the real question is whether you would be prepared to have a new sensor fitted if corrosion started in a camera with a potentially limited service life?

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47 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

It would be offensive. A buyer does not set the price for the seller. He only chooses whether to buy or not.

jdlaing, we are talking about ebay with "make an offer" formula, I should have specified that. So, we are not talking about whether it's polite to make an offer, we are talking about opinions on the reasonable value of an M9 with original sensor : )

 

16 minutes ago, pgk said:

So a 5 year old M9 is halfway through its 'life' by my reckoning. But add into this the sensor problem (which may or may not occur) and you have an additional variable which skews the value.

I guess this is a very good point too, in some threads I read all sensors WILL develop corrosion, on others I read not all sensors might. 
Yet, I haven't seen a post where someone clearly says he has the original sensor and regularly uses the camera.
But that's of course less likely to be reported, because we tend to come to forums asking questions when something goes wrong, rather then to report everything is just fine : )

EDIT: one  clue on whether all sensors develop a problem or not, should be that Leica is not replacing a sensor unless it develops corrosion. But then again, this is convenient for them so it brings us back to having legitimate doubts.

Edited by andrea-i

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I say save up and find more money and just buy an M9 with a replaced good sensor. Save the headaches for other unexpected things in life.

CCD has a unique rendering, worth imo. This is after acquiring a CMOS M

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Perhaps you can benefit from my decades of experience buying, using, and eventually selling cameras.

Be mentally prepared to pay fair market value for a camera without problems.  You may have to be patient to find a clean, problem-free example, but when you do, you know what the fair market price is and will be prepared to pay it.  Ebay Completed Listings and collectiblend.com are two good sources for looking at prices.  Expect to pay a mid-range price.

Buying used can save you money, especially if you are expert in the make and model you seek.  Knowing the issues, wear-and-tear items, etc. allows for a thorough inspection and assessment before you buy.  Not having this knowledge is setting you up for the occasional, "buying someone else's problems."  

I don't know if you are part of a local photographic equipment community like here in Los Angeles, but you will label yourself quickly by low-balling your offers.  The experienced camera owners here are used to wholesale or below-wholesale offers from dealers all the time, and you can quickly get yourself labeled as a dealer or dealer wanna-be if you make low-ball offers in a location where there are enough photographers to gossip about what they hear.  By the way, the converse works as well when someone is asking too much.  Rather than make an issue, best just to say, "thank you" and walk away.

Eric

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Ebay sold listings, to be exact. Completed shows items ended by the seller. The only reason not to sell on eBay - price was too high.

ebay puts completed even if only sold is selected. Has to be unchecked with sold only selected and searched for second time.

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