Photographer's Workflow

[traveler11]

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I received an email from Leica Camera AG asking to participate in an online questionnaire regarding my workflow.  The picture was of an SL and an S that had a cord attached, suggesting tethering and a computer keyboard.  The survey was not terribly lengthy, but it eventually had a marked direction in its questions:  Tethering.  What surprised me most was that Leica wants our opinion regarding the use of tethering, improving its functionality, and asking about charging for its usage (one time purchase or subscription).

 

I bring this up, because I use the Image Shuttle a great deal, the cameras are expensive enough, and I'd like to hear your opinions.  Does the introduction of the S3 have anything to do with it?

[mgrayson3]

My pal who shoots celebrity portraits with Leica S and SL complains constantly about the tethering. That's a WAY higher priority for him than MP.

Edited March 8, 2019 by mgrayson3

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[peterv]

Yes, I got the email too and I think it's a good thing Leica is conducting this survey to learn more about the customer needs and wishes, it took me maybe seven minutes to answer.

[albertknappmd]

I completed the email as well...

They are obviously interested in our thoughts...

Albert 😎

[ynp]

Tethering was one of the reasons why I bought the GFX 50r instead of the S007. 

[albireo_double]

I didn't get any questionnaire (why should I, I have only spent a pedestrian plus minus Eur 50k with Leica in the past 5 years, so I don't count). But here are my strong preferences, based on my extensive use of the S tethered (and more recently, the SL also):

(a) Fix the Tethered Plugin for Lightroom. Leica know it is broken; they even say so on the download page in the owners' area ("Changing camera user profiles in the camera during tethered connection could lead to a software crash and/ or an image loss! Solution: User profiles should not be changed when the camera is connected to the computer!"). The plugin allows you to select an import preset but it never applies it. This is a significant impediment - when shooting in a studio, I always shoot tethered and I want me and my team to see how the images are coming out. Not only that, some of the presets apply compression of shadows or highlights and I want to be sure, at the time of capture, that I am not loosing any detail to under or overexposure. If the theme of the shoot is "high contrast black and white", for example, I want the images to come up on the screen with a high contrast BW preset applied. If I am shooting a theme with a "film look", I want the images to show up with whatever film preset I have decided to use (say Mastin Labs Portra 160). The Leica version of the plugin just does not apply these presets, even if you select them, which is infuriating. I notified Leica about the problem on 2nd February 2017 - they still haven't fixed it. The contact person on the email was Thomas Schmidt. 

Characteristically, the Fuji version of the plugin, which looks exactly the same, applies all the presets as selected, no problemo. Mr. Schmidt, if you are reading this, can you please explain why the Fuji plugin works and the exactly same-looking Leica plugin doesn't? Apart from this, the Fuji cameras now tether directly in Capture One, which is a faster and more reliable tethering solution than Lightroom. Of course, one can use whatever presets in C1 during tethering with the Fuji cameras, so they come up on the screen with the preset applied. The Leica work-around (using Image Shuttle and setting a hot folder in C1) is not great because, of course,....no prizes for guessing..... it doesn't allow me to apply any import preset...so the files just show on the screen with the "generic DNG" profile, and not with the "Spring Collection preset No. 2" applied.

(b) Use the Lemo connector, same as on the S cameras, also on the SL2. Do not use the stupid generic USB 3 connector that's on the SL. Why? Because, like in all so equipped cameras (including the D850, GFX50S to name just a few) the tether cable just keeps getting loose and forces us to use various "jerk stoppers" and other assorted stupid contraptions, just to keep the cable connected. The Lemo connector on the S is a thing of beauty, it just plugs in and stays connected (thank you Leica for using Lemo on the S cameras). So please use the Lemo connector on the SL2. 

(c)  It would be nice to offer some profiles  - Phase One provides (offers for sale) various development presets, looks, that can be applied in C1, to get to a more advanced starting point, with grading applied, while shooting. Fuji famously provides the film simulation import presets (Acros with green filter, anyone?). Whereas all we get from Leica is the Adobe looks (we used to get the "Embedded" also, whatever that was, but it seems to have disappeared in the most recent versions of Lightroom). Would it be so difficult to give us some nice Agfa APX 100 or RSX presets, for example (to keep it all "at home", so to speak)? Staying in Germany, could Leica perhaps collaborate with https://www.basiccolor.de to offer specific presets for various light sources? I forked out the full price for the basiccolor solution and it ended up in a frustration: the profiles generated by the software did not look right, too much red etc. (I am sure I made a mistake somewhere but perhaps Leica could do this right for us, properly, just like Phase One do in their "Cultural Heritage" package, where every back comes with a super-precise set of colour profiles). It is not strictly necessary for me, but I would love such an offering from Leica. BTW, there used to be a specific colour profile for the S2 available for download in the owners' area - why not one (or more) for the S, SL...etc.?

If Thomas Schmidt and his merry band of pirates want to send me a questionnaire, I will be happy to answer it for them. In the meantime, see my suggestions here.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by albireo_double

[Stuart Richardson]

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The questionnaire was sent out with their mailing list...you might have just missed it, or not been signed up. I did not receive it either, until I looked that the promotions section of my gmail account, and it was there...sent on the 6th of March. 

Regarding the survey, I find it disheartening they want to charge for the tethered software when they have not even fixed the version they had for the S006. It broke years ago and that was that. Now you can use it with a hot folder, and the image shuttle works to control the camera, but the native lightroom tethering does not work. 

 

P.S. The Embedded option is still there in Lightroom, but if you do not have it selected as a default for your camera, it does not display. You have to go into the camera profiles, and search for it. You can select it as a favorite, and then it should show up more readily.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Stuart Richardson

[TomLiles]

I shoot tethered about 70% of the time and the only respect in which the Leica S has been disappointing is this one. The frustrating UX when tethered is something I have just learned to live with and develop workarounds for (and polite excuses to give to hovering art directors)... I continue to stick with it because I like using the S---but everything Mr Grayson and albireo_double said ring true for me... It is straight up embarrassing that Leica is partnered with Adobe, yet their premier studio camera does not work anything like perfectly with the only serious software it is compatible with. I'd take C1-like tethering stability and UX over 64Mpx any day of the week, month or year. At any rate, the one caveat I could wedge in in Leica's defense: Lightroom has never been the best for tethering (any camera I've used) and it has never seemed like a priority feature to the Adobe Lr software team. It is way better now than it was when I started out, back at Lr4, but it still isn't near the standard of tethering in C1 [and a C1 compatible camera]. And that is it in a nutshell. My capture work, when tethered, would be easier / better / more professionally executed with C1 and a C1 compatible camera. Ego is the only reason I do it with an S. But ego aside, that's the problem statement right there. Leica is not even competing with the industry standard (as regards tethering). It should be super, super obvious to them what they need to do. 

Because they haven't, I have weighed up a few times in the last year whether I can, or whether I should, continue to soldier on with the S and Lr CC Classic [or whatever they call the desktop one now] for work (seven times out of ten tethered, remember)... or just bite the bullet and switch to a Phase One back and C1---the Have a Coke and Smile© option. I would have less stress; my capture work would go quicker and smoother... But I can never quite get there. Maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome, or whatever, but the practical details like those lemo connectors, the amazing finder, the photography-centric control gestalt, the not-so-often seen equipment choice, yada-yada, all the reasons we love the S-series, that's what keeps me hanging on, hoping for a brighter future re: tethering and tethered capture integration with Adobe.

I find a kind of hypocrisy in myself for wanting to use the S, in part, because it is not the industry standard choice, yet expecting tethering to be on par with the industry standard. But yes, I'll still indulge in that hypocrisy and that expectation---in Leica's case, all the ducks are in a row: 1) good hardware support that seems aware of our needs => lemo connectors, long tether cables 2) partnership with big software house, 3) marketing to and having some success with a Studio-based constituency of professionals, see S Magazine and etc... Leica just needs to get a cattle prod up the backside of that designer-stubble guy who runs the project group, or find some motivation from someone, somewhere, and go get smooth / stable tethering sorted. It probably wouldn't change the World, but it'd help convince many users it is worth staying with the S system for work.

Here's hoping...

 

P/S Stuart, I use an Styp006 and tether to Lr. It is not trouble free, not at all, but functions most of the time. I am using "Adobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic CC Release 8.2 Camera Raw11.2" (Jesus, what a dog's dinner of a name!)

Edited March 13, 2019 by TomLiles

[albireo_double]

11 minutes ago, TomLiles said:

... or just bite the bullet and switch to a Phase One back and C1---the Have a Coke and Smile© option.

I bought a used IQ280 back recently, plus a never used Mamiya RZ67 Pro IID from a collector in Japan. Found the cable-less digiback adapter on eBay. Works like a charm in the studio… tethering perfectly with C1, of course. The back uses the bigger USB3 Type B connector that is also very secure and doesn't get loose. The revolving back in combination with a waist-level finder is a real joy to use. And all the four lenses that I bought to use with the Mamiya (mint condition latest versions, floating elements, APO etc.) together cost me less than half the price of one S lens. Still interested in the S3 though, if they fix the Tethered Plugin and offer me a reasonable trade-in price for the 007. If Leica wish to charge for a tethering solution going forward,  I would be prepared to pay them a Eur 100-200 one-time fee, as long as that meant tethering in Capture One. But not for the LR plugin as it is now, even if they fix it - this should be  free, just like it was for Fuji before they agreed with Phase One on tethering support (ok, there was also a "Pro" version of the Fuji plugin that cost about Eur70...I'd be prepared to pay Leica that much for a working LR plugin). If they don't fix the present plugin, no S3 for me. If they bring a fancy, expensive, non-standard, in-house Leica tethering "solution", with lacking sw updates and no support one year down the road...then I pass. 

[Stuart Richardson]

Thanks Tom. Are you talking about using a watched folder/auto import in conjunction with image shuttle? I have had that work, but awhile ago the Lightroom tethered capture function broke for the 006 and it seemed to stop working. Is it back? 

[TomLiles]

Hi there Stuart, yes I am tethering directly into Lr. I connect the camera to the computer and select "Tethered Capture > Start Tethered Capture" from the File menu. I do recall having the exact issue you have, though it was immediately after I bought into the system a couple years back so my memory is hazy. I started with an S2-P (still my backup now) and was gobsmacked the first time I tried tethered capture and Lightroom could not even register that a camera was connected... it bears repeating for others reading: this from the maker that sells its cameras with Lightroom included.

At any rate, a couple emails to Leica support and I found out about a tethered plugin for the S and Lightroom. After downloading and installing that (via this Lightroom "Plugin Manager") I have never had terminal problems with connecting the camera to Lightroom and starting tethered captures. The software (Lr) is a bit more robust now and you don't have to live in constant fear of the laptop going to sleep, or switching briefly to another app (change the music on iTunes or etc)--which were all recipes for losing the tethered connection with any camera before. Along with S foibles it made the tether process even more tender... Not all reduced to zero now, but lost connection is much less a worry than before; I don't need to be compulsively walking over to the computer mid-shoot and touching the trackpad just to keep it awake. This said, and with the S particularly, it will still sometimes muck-up metadata, capture date / times, corrupt the files mid-capture, not apply presets, be generally slow to react, not offer camera control from the software, and just for laughs: change your camera settings the moment you connect to the computer if you are using an in-camera preset (user setting)... not insurmountable issues, but real annoyances with the experience. But compared to not even being connect and capture directly, your situation (and mine when I first bought an S), I'll take it.

Please see the screenshot and check your Lr, Stuart (File > Plugin Manager > look for "Leica Tethered Plugin"). If you don't have this plugin please contact Leica and give it a try.

Cheers

Tom

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[sdplamen]

On 3/14/2019 at 2:26 AM, TomLiles said:

Hi there Stuart, yes I am tethering directly into Lr. I connect the camera to the computer and select "Tethered Capture > Start Tethered Capture" from the File menu. I do recall having the exact issue you have, though it was immediately after I bought into the system a couple years back so my memory is hazy. I started with an S2-P (still my backup now) and was gobsmacked the first time I tried tethered capture and Lightroom could not even register that a camera was connected... it bears repeating for others reading: this from the maker that sells its cameras with Lightroom included.

At any rate, a couple emails to Leica support and I found out about a tethered plugin for the S and Lightroom. After downloading and installing that (via this Lightroom "Plugin Manager") I have never had terminal problems with connecting the camera to Lightroom and starting tethered captures. The software (Lr) is a bit more robust now and you don't have to live in constant fear of the laptop going to sleep, or switching briefly to another app (change the music on iTunes or etc)--which were all recipes for losing the tethered connection with any camera before. Along with S foibles it made the tether process even more tender... Not all reduced to zero now, but lost connection is much less a worry than before; I don't need to be compulsively walking over to the computer mid-shoot and touching the trackpad just to keep it awake. This said, and with the S particularly, it will still sometimes muck-up metadata, capture date / times, corrupt the files mid-capture, not apply presets, be generally slow to react, not offer camera control from the software, and just for laughs: change your camera settings the moment you connect to the computer if you are using an in-camera preset (user setting)... not insurmountable issues, but real annoyances with the experience. But compared to not even being connect and capture directly, your situation (and mine when I first bought an S), I'll take it.

Please see the screenshot and check your Lr, Stuart (File > Plugin Manager > look for "Leica Tethered Plugin"). If you don't have this plugin please contact Leica and give it a try.

Cheers

Tom

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Thanks for this info, TomLiles. Would anybody know how to download this software for USB thetered plugin for Leica M ?