Exposure Triangle Question

[LouHamilton]

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I have looked through manuals, etc. and cannot find specific details of how Auto works in the M10 for Shutter and ISO.

Aperture: I know that this will be dictated by the lens and depending on which lens used, it may be limited to full stops, 1/2 stops, or 1/3 stops.

Shutter: Wheel is in 1/2 increments, but what is Auto?

ISO: Wheel is in full increments, but what is Auto? Manual setting via app is 1/3 stops.

My current DSLR settings are all in 1/3 stops so I know how much I need to change my settings to get a correct exposure. I know the 1/3 system pretty well, but I'm not familiar with 1/2 stops and values. Granted, to change one click versus two clicks is pretty basic, but I have a lot more control on a 1/3 system versus 1/2 system. Make sense?

I know this is probably a stupid silly question, but this is how my mind works. In preparation for getting my own Leica, I can easily change up my Fuji and Nikon systems to get acclimated to the 1/2 stop if that is what I will need to begin using. Maybe I am thinking this through too much, but that is how my brain works.

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[pico]

Ask the camera! You can look through the rangefinder or LV to see the chosen shutter speed, and it will change in increments as you move the camera about. In my experience the fractional differences between full-stop shutter speeds occur with longer exposures, for example a display of 1/24th of a second.

Edited March 7, 2019 by pico

[John Miranda]

My understanding is as follows:

1. You set aperture on the lens.

2.  If you ISO to auto and select a specific shutter speed, the camera selects the lowest ISO that meets exposure requirements, up to any maximum ceiling ISO you specify in your settings.

3.  If you also set shutter speed to auto, then under ISO set up menu option, look at Maximum Exposure Time - This governs the slowest shutter speed to avoid camera shake.  

My settings vary on situation, but for walking about and taking images of subjects where I don't need fast shutter speeds, I set max ISO to 12,500 and maximum exposure either to 1/n or 1/2n (e.g. for a 50mm lens, 1/50th per sec or faster for 1/n).  I really like the way this is all implemented as I don't really worry too much about shake or ISO, just think about aperture and focus and composition.

Best, John

[pico]

Life was so much simpler before automation.

[a.noctilux]

3 minutes ago, pico said:

Life was so much simpler before automation.

Well said Pico, 100% agree with you.

Lucky us Leica M users, we CAN also use our M in MANUAL settings.

😵

Lou, when you want Leica M10, did you know that you may forget other super-automated-photo-taking-devices ?

In Leica M camera assistance is bare minimum ...

Forget about Auto-ISO, Auto-focus, and don't use that "A" things Aperture priority for Auto-shutter-speed so much on your future M.

 

[LouHamilton]

Actually, I really only use Auto ISO on my Fuji. I set the Aperture and shutter speed myself. I also have been using zone focusing more versus relying on auto focus.

It was more of a curiosity thing than anything. I know once I get mine, I will have my own personal work flow that I like and will work for me.

[mujk]

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I was surprised to find how well Auto ISO works on the M10 because of the configurable shutter speed limit. I rarely use this feature on my other cameras, but on the M10 it's turned on most of the time, together with Auto shutter speed. The main alternative for me is full manual.

But, as said, you really don't need to worry in what increments aperture, shutter speed and ISO are changed. The camera will tell you what speed and ISO it has chosen (when using auto) or if the exposure is correct (when using manual). But you will need to learn how metering works, particularly when using the OVF. It's not "intelligent" in any way.

Edited March 8, 2019 by mujk

[mujk]

And if you are not familiar with how the "light balance" In the OVF works when using manual, check the instruction manual. It's really a very convenient method to determine correct exposure.

[adan]

23 hours ago, LouHamilton said:

Shutter: Wheel is in 1/2 increments, but what is Auto?

ISO: Wheel is in full increments, but what is Auto? Manual setting via app is 1/3 stops.

Auto ("A") shutter speeds are always indicated in half-stops. 1/125-1/180-1/250-1/350-1/500, etc. That includes the optical viewfinder LED read-out, the numerical readout with live-view or EVF, and the speed recorded in EXIF. The actual shutter speed used may be more "infinitely variable" - but not in any indicated way; it's always rounded to the nearest half-stop.

Auto-ISO is always in 1/3rds-stop increments, just like the menu or app ISOs. 500, or 2000, or 2500, etc.

You didn't ask about it, but exposure compensation is also always in 1/3rd-stop increments. ± 0.3, 0.7, 1.0, 1.3....etc. Which is why I wonder if the actual shutter speed is not, behind the seens, a bit more variable than the half-stops shown by the indicators and EXIF data.

__________________

There are user-settings that adjust how Auto-ISO works: you can set a maximum ISO the camera is allowed to set automatically (to avoid unexpectedly noisy ISO 50000 pictures), and you can also set a minimum shutter speed that controls when the ISO automation starts to kick up the ISO - e.g to not allow an "A" shutter speed selection that wouldproduce visible camera shake blur.

The latter can be set as a hard limit ("Never set shutter below 1/500th sec - adjust ISO upwards as needed to prevent a slower speed") or as a relative speed compared to focal length of the lens in use, in increments of 1x, 2x, or 4x the lens length. ("With a 90mm lens, never use a shutter speed below 1/90 (or 1/180, or 1/360) - adjust ISO as needed instead").

In the case of your Fuji technique, it will work the same. You pick a shutter speed and aperture manually, and the camera will pick an ISO to get a good exposure with those settings and the light available. But - only up to the maximum ISO you have "permitted." If your max ISO setting is simply not high enough for the light available and your shutter/aperture choices, you will get an underexposure indication in the viewfinder - and an underexposed picture.

Similarly, using Auto-ISO and auto-shutter-speed: if there is insufficient light for a good exposure with the top ISO you have permitted, and the focal-length limitation you have set for minimum shutter speed, the camera will override your shutter-speed limitation and use a lower speed, once it runs out if allowed ISO options.

E.G. if you've told the camera "keep shutter speed above 4x focal length, and also never exceed ISO 10000" and have a 50mm lens mounted - but the light is so dim that it requires 1/30th sec at ISO 10000, the camera will use 1/30, instead of "4x 50mm" (1/200th).

[pico]

Gee whiz, adan, reading your explanation pushes my motivation to photography right back to cave painting.

Oh, has anyone considered that some cave paintings were perceived by the original people as animated? The cave was illuminated by a fire and an interpreter interrupted parts of the image with his body shadow throughout his narrative to direct attention, then moved to reveal the next image.

Then a most primitive young boy in the last row named Pico shouted, "Gee whiz ..."

Thousands of years later an idiot invented Power Point and pushed progress backwards 100 years.

Edited March 8, 2019 by pico

[Jerry Attrik]

20 hours ago, pico said:

Life was so much simpler before automation.

Along with a.noctilux -- I agree

IIIf with 'Cron plus Weston Euromaster  or Lunasix F

Probably only one factor to adjust.

No batteries to worry about (Saving Lunasix)

Bought a Digilux ! (disaster! it flattens the battery when switched off!!!)

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Jerry Attrik
spelling mistake

[pico]

59 minutes ago, Jerry Attrik said:

Bought a Digilux ! (disaster! it flattens the battery when switched off!!!)

Regarding battery-less, I have a bulb flash unit for an early Leica (tell me if you know the model),  which fires flash bulbs of various sizes with no battery nor any flash socket. Leica did not make it, but it works.

How without a battery? The body contains a spring-loaded magneto.
I must have a dozen varieties of these things.

Edited March 8, 2019 by pico