Ivar B Posted February 25, 2019 Share #1 Posted February 25, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) An aquaintance of mine has bought the Tri-Elmar-M for use on the Sony A7. He has not done very extensive testing yet, but as of now it may appear that technically the Tri-Elmar may deliver somewhat below the Sony lenses in terms of resolution and contrast. This may be entirely sensor related of course, but is there anyone out there who has any personal experience to share? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2019 Posted February 25, 2019 Hi Ivar B, Take a look here Tri-Elmar-M 4/28-35-50 on Sony A7. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted February 25, 2019 Share #2 Posted February 25, 2019 Yes. You will never get as good a result on a Sony Camera as you would on an M body. The only one focal length that would be best is the 50mm. If you already have Leica lenses and wish to use them on a Sony body it’s fine. Buying Leica lenses to use on a Sony body in the hopes that you have found the holy grail is a fools errand. Native lenses work best on native bodies. Especially Leica lenses. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivar B Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, jdlaing said: Yes. You will never get as good a result on a Sony Camera as you would on an M body. The only one focal length that would be best is the 50mm. If you already have Leica lenses and wish to use them on a Sony body it’s fine. Buying Leica lenses to use on a Sony body in the hopes that you have found the holy grail is a fools errand. Native lenses work best on native bodies. Especially Leica lenses. I don`t use Sony myself so this is not an area I know much about, but I know for a fact that some Sony users get spectacular results with Leica lenses. The last I saw was a 90mm Apo-Summicron delivering really top notch. So I don`t think it is true that this combo is always bad. I know there are some challenges with the wideangles, but my question dealt with the Tri-Elmar. I believe many assume that the Leica sensors are indeed made by Sony, but they are obviously not optimised for M-lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 25, 2019 Share #4 Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Ivar B said: I don`t use Sony myself so this is not an area I know much about, but I know for a fact that some Sony users get spectacular results with Leica lenses. The last I saw was a 90mm Apo-Summicron delivering really top notch. So I don`t think it is true that this combo is always bad. I know there are some challenges with the wideangles, but my question dealt with the Tri-Elmar. I believe many assume that the Leica sensors are indeed made by Sony, but they are obviously not optimised for M-lenses. See where I said the 50 would be fine? Its true that 50 and longer lenses are acceptable. It’s 35 and wider where it Is not optimal. Edited February 25, 2019 by jdlaing Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidthefat Posted February 25, 2019 Share #5 Posted February 25, 2019 https://phillipreeve.net/blog/rangefinder-wide-angle-lenses-on-a7-cameras-problems-and-solutions/ You can read about the issues regarding adapting wide angle lenses on the Sony alpha cameras. The issue stems from the thick filter glass in front of the Sony sensors. The Leica digital cameras have much thinner glass on their sensors, so they don't have this issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 25, 2019 Share #6 Posted February 25, 2019 Offset micro lenses help too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdemeyer Posted February 25, 2019 Share #7 Posted February 25, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) A few years back I had an E49 Tri-Elmar in lovely condition (had Leica CLA it) and used it on an A7 with Kolari thin stack mod. The mod addressed the filter stack issues but I always found it was really difficult to manually nail focus an F4 lens in that focal length range on the Sony. I have the same issue with the 35-70 Vario-Elmar R on the Sony. I know some would say “focus is not that critical at F4” but I don’t feel that way. I sold the Tri-Elmar went to a single focal length (usually 35mm) for travel or daily carry and crop to 50mm when needed. A nice, sharp 35mm will crop to 50mm for daily use. And if I’m out making images, I carry more than one lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 26, 2019 Share #8 Posted February 26, 2019 Bet you’re sorry you sold that Tri-Elmar. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdemeyer Posted February 26, 2019 Share #9 Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, jdlaing said: Bet you’re sorry you sold that Tri-Elmar. Not really. I didn’t use the 28mm focal length that much and find I can crop from 35mm to 50mm when I’m travelling light. I use the Zeiss C-Biogon 35mm 2.8 or the M-Rokkor 40mm F2.0 for daily carry. The Zeiss is so sharp in the middle of the frame that cropping to 50mm is really not an issue for me. And it pops into focus well even though it’s F2.8. And the sale of the Tri-Elmar funded a good % of the cost of an M10. 🙂 Edited February 26, 2019 by mdemeyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otho Posted March 1, 2019 Share #10 Posted March 1, 2019 I use APO M 75&90 on A7R3. Flawless results, crisp images with top notch microcontrast and bokeh. I really enjoy this combo not only in M system. These lenses easisly give spectacular results on 42MP resolution sensor. On the other hand, wideangle M lenses (below 50mm) on A7R3 are usually (not always) weak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2019 Share #11 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) On 2/26/2019 at 4:16 AM, jdlaing said: Bet you’re sorry you sold that Tri-Elmar. Sooner or later you might consider returning to Leica M‘s optical viewfinder and the rangefinder, which is unsurpassed for a wide-angle to normal lens of f:4.0 But then the lens is gone and you‘ll get over missing it, by saying: 28mm not used so often, 35mm crop to 50mm is ok, ... etc. Selling a lens before having found a better one for that exact purpose (the 28-35-50 is very compact and you could have cropped the 50 to a 75/90!) was something that I would have regretted.. To finance a M10 this way (which will be replaced by a M11), rather than keeping/getting a 240 AND keeping the 49Tri-Elmar, which will never come back again, that was a tricky question imo. Edited March 4, 2019 by tri Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2019 Share #12 Posted March 4, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 4:47 PM, Ivar B said: An aquaintance of mine has bought the Tri-Elmar-M for use on the Sony A7. He has not done very extensive testing yet, but as of now it may appear that technically the Tri-Elmar may deliver somewhat below the Sony lenses in terms of resolution and contrast. This may be entirely sensor related of course, but is there anyone out there who has any personal experience to share? The tri is a leica-RANGEFINDER lens imo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdemeyer Posted March 4, 2019 Share #13 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, tri said: Sooner or later you might consider returning to Leica M‘s optical viewfinder and the rangefinder, which is unsurpassed for a wide-angle to normal lens of f:4.0 But then the lens is gone and you‘ll get over missing it, by saying: 28mm not used so often, 35mm crop to 50mm is ok, ... etc. Selling a lens before having found a better one for that exact purpose (the 28-35-50 is very compact and you could have cropped the 50 to a 75/90!) was something that I would have regretted.. To finance a M10 this way (which will be replaced by a M11), rather than keeping/getting a 240 AND keeping the 49Tri-Elmar, which will never come back again, that was a tricky question imo. Not tricky to me. Even on the M10 the Tri-Elmar didn’t bond with me. When I want wider than 35 I usually jump to the 24 Elmar-M 3.8, which is an amazing lens and very compact. (It significantly outperforms the Tri-Elmar at 28, which is its weakest focal length.) I have multiple small lenses (and some rather big ones) in the 35-50 range, and ultimately didn’t find the convenience of one lens to be a worthwhile trade off for me. YMMV, of course. So, absolutely no regrets. 🙂 And I hope the new owner is enjoying the lens! Edited March 4, 2019 by mdemeyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
strohscw Posted March 6, 2019 Share #14 Posted March 6, 2019 I don´t see any reason why Leica M lenses from 50mm up should not behave the same on Sony sensors than on Leica M sensors. Wide Angles, 35 and below, are a different story, which, according to my knowledge, has more to do with the problem that a standard wide angle lens design from Leica M (they are no retrofocus design, thats why they are so small) has the last lens that close to the sensor that the light rays reach the sensor corners very flat and the risk to be reflected or smeered on the sensor stack is high. Therefore the Leica sensors have a special microlens design for there M-sensors. Thats, in my opinion, is the reason why the M-lenses work best on M-cameras. With film the problem was not that critical. Greetings Wolfram Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted March 11, 2019 Share #15 Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) I’ve heard lots of people on forums saying that Leica WA lenses aren’t going to perform with Sony A7 cameras. But I have to be honest - I use my A7 with all my Leica lenses, from 21mm SEM to 90mm, and the results always impress me. Maybe I just have low standards Edited March 11, 2019 by DigitalHeMan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted March 11, 2019 Share #16 Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) I recently bought an A7III & have tried out my 21-35mm Vario Elmar-R at 21mm and f3.5 on it. Corners are noticeably soft which is not something I have noticed when I use it on my M240. 100% centre crop:- Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 100% top-left crop:- Have not yet tried my 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH but in reality as these wide focal lengths are (in my case) used mainly for landscapes and I do not indulge in pixel-peeping on such images, I shall not be losing sleep over it. PS - I took similar shots with my 25mm Zeiss Loxia f2.4 @ f2.4 and the corners do not exhibit such softening. Edited March 11, 2019 by Keith (M) PS added. Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 100% top-left crop:- Have not yet tried my 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH but in reality as these wide focal lengths are (in my case) used mainly for landscapes and I do not indulge in pixel-peeping on such images, I shall not be losing sleep over it. PS - I took similar shots with my 25mm Zeiss Loxia f2.4 @ f2.4 and the corners do not exhibit such softening. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/294614-tri-elmar-m-428-35-50-on-sony-a7/?do=findComment&comment=3700185'>More sharing options...
james.liam Posted March 11, 2019 Share #17 Posted March 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Keith (M) said: I recently bought an A7III & have tried out my 21-35mm Vario Elmar-R at 21mm and f3.5 on it. Corners are noticeably soft which is not something I have noticed when I use it on my M240. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Have not yet tried my 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH but in reality as these wide focal lengths are (in my case) used mainly for landscapes and I do not indulge in pixel-peeping on such images, I shall not be losing sleep over it. PS - I took similar shots with my 25mm Zeiss Loxia f2.4 @ f2.4 and the corners do not exhibit such softening. What make is the adapter you used? May be that rather than the lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted March 11, 2019 Share #18 Posted March 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, james.liam said: What make is the adapter you used? May be that rather than the lens. Novoflex NEX/LER. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 11, 2019 Share #19 Posted March 11, 2019 It ain’t the adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidthefat Posted March 11, 2019 Share #20 Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, james.liam said: What make is the adapter you used? May be that rather than the lens. Adapters going from full frame to full frame is just a mechanical adapter that gets the distance from the lens flange to the sensor/film correct. A speedbooster on the other hand (adapting from a bigger format lens to smaller sensor) has intermediary lenses on the adapter itself that influences the image quality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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