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Rangefinder patch not lining up on infinity


Flyer

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I bought the M10 yesterday on Ebay and took a few shots but it appears that the Patch does not line up at infinity. I have tried 3 lenses, all three are 7 Artisan which I know are cheap lenses, could this be the lenses or could it be that the camera needs re-aligning? If so what would the cost be?

Interestingly the images appear to be in sharp focus?! I focused on John Moore alarm box at infinity but the patch was out of alignment.

Many Thanks

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Edited by Flyer
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You really need to test this with a lens that you know to be properly calibrated, or with the electronic viewfinder in magnified view. If you have good vision you may be able to tell by using the screen and live view, perhaps with a loup or magnifier glasses. If your camera ( or lens ) is focusing past infinity, it is fairly easy to tell that the image sharpens up a bit when you back off. If your camera never gets to infinity, it is a bit harder to tell.

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1 hour ago, Rob L said:

You really need to test this with a lens that you know to be properly calibrated, or with the electronic viewfinder in magnified view. If you have good vision you may be able to tell by using the screen and live view, perhaps with a loup or magnifier glasses. If your camera ( or lens ) is focusing past infinity, it is fairly easy to tell that the image sharpens up a bit when you back off. If your camera never gets to infinity, it is a bit harder to tell.

Thanks Rob. I am a Newby to Rangefinder, two days to he precise. Never really used manual focus much before so please could you walk me through the process? 

How far away does infinity start to be in focus, if that makes sense? 

Could this be that the camera is not calabrated correctly? I need to know ASAP if I need to return the camera? 

 

Much appreciate your advise

 

Flyer 

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38 minutes ago, Flyer said:

How far away does infinity start to be in focus, if that makes sense? 

Could this be that the camera is not calabrated correctly? I need to know ASAP if I need to return the camera?

In your photo the alarm box is not far enough away to be considered at infinity. Focus upon it if you want correct focus. Regarding calibration - you do not have evidence that is not aligned. First make proper focus, then examine in order to know.

As Gobert suggested it would help to use a proper lens. Leica is certainly not going to consider evidence based upon a lens that requires user adjustments.

Edited by pico
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48 minutes ago, Flyer said:

How far away does infinity start to be in focus, if that makes sense? 

Obviously this depends on the aperture and the focal length used. Due to depth of field.

But generally speaking, 1000x the focal length. E.G. for 28mm lens, 28 meters (92 feet) is where "infinity" begins. For a 90mm lens - 90 meters (300 feet).

Depth of field tables, and the lens' depth-of-field scale, will show other distances, depending on aperture chosen.

But if you want to know at what distance should the Leica rangefinder images align, when the lens is set to infinity - a mile or more, and preferably the Moon. Not a sign 20 meters/66 feet away. ;)

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7 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

You have got a digital rangefinder with live view. Why don't you just put it on a tripod and compare live view with rangefinder focus.

+1  And make prints.

It’s the only time I use LV on an M.

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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Thanks everyone, I guess I need to do some research about this. I know how to check for fron and back focus but when I need to check for focus alignment it's a hole new world. 

My main concern is to establish if there is anything wrong with the camera 

Thanks

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56 minutes ago, Flyer said:

Thanks everyone, I guess I need to do some research about this. I know how to check for fron and back focus but when I need to check for focus alignment it's a hole new world. 

My main concern is to establish if there is anything wrong with the camera 

Thanks

I would not return the camera just becuase the rangefinder is out of adjustment (if it actually is). This happens occasionally with brand new cameras and could have also gone out of adjustment during shipping. If the camera is in otherwise perfect condition there is no reason to return.

DAG will inspect, clean, and adjust your camera for about $100.00. Or, you can take it to Leica NJ and they will do it for free.

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1 minute ago, dkmoore said:

I would not return the camera just becuase the rangefinder is out of adjustment (if it actually is). This happens occasionally with brand new cameras and could have also gone out of adjustment during shipping. If the camera is in otherwise perfect condition there is no reason to return.

DAG will inspect, clean, and adjust your camera for about $100.00. Or, you can take it to Leica NJ and they will do it for free.

Not everyone lives in the USA. (Check the OP’s profile).    VEry expensive to use DAG from the U.K.  also, I don’t think the OP has bought the M10 new.     If  the lens needs calibrating then this brand is provided with an adjustment tool.

BUT i don’t think the OP has a problem.  It’s simply inexperience.   I don’t use the lens scale to compose an image and I never shoot objects located at infinity.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, lucerne said:

Not everyone lives in the USA. (Check the OP’s profile).    VEry expensive to use DAG from the U.K.  also, I don’t think the OP has bought the M10 new.     If  the lens needs calibrating then this brand is provided with an adjustment tool.

BUT i don’t think the OP has a problem.  It’s simply inexperience.   I don’t use the lens scale to compose an image and I never shoot objects located at infinity.

 

 

 

Regardless, I guarantee there is camera repair shops in the UK that can adjustment his rangefinder for the equivalent of $100 USD or 76 pounds. 

My point is that I would never return a USED Leica M camera because the rangefinder is off. The OP mentioned that he wanted this info ASAP in case he had to return the unit. *see post 4*

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56 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Regardless, I guarantee there is camera repair shops in the UK that can adjustment his rangefinder for the equivalent of $100 USD or 76 pounds. 

My point is that I would never return a USED Leica M camera because the rangefinder is off. The OP mentioned that he wanted this info ASAP in case he had to return the unit. *see post 4*

Thanks for the reassurance not to return. Is the fact that the focus patch does not align at infinity mean that the camera needs calibration or could it still be within tollarance? 

Flyer

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1 hour ago, lucerne said:

Not everyone lives in the USA. (Check the OP’s profile).    VEry expensive to use DAG from the U.K.  also, I don’t think the OP has bought the M10 new.     If  the lens needs calibrating then this brand is provided with an adjustment tool.

BUT i don’t think the OP has a problem.  It’s simply inexperience.   I don’t use the lens scale to compose an image and I never shoot objects located at infinity.

 

 

 

Quote

Thanks for the info. In your experience is this somthing that needs correcting? I have tried two lenses is it possible both lenses need adjustment or is your instinct that it's the body? 

 

Edited by Flyer
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Maybe your M10 is fine, but the lenses are not calibrated.

See post #2 Rob L:

Quote

You really need to test this with a lens that you know to be properly calibrated, or with the electronic viewfinder in magnified view.

Don't rely on lens that you don't know if it's calibrated.

Take the M10 to a shop (Leica or not) and try with a trusted M lens.

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Didn't you already tell us the lenses are 7 Artisan? Did we not already suggest you try a known Leica lens? 7 Artisans are known to be rather non-standard hinkey lenses, so quit messing around; eliminate them for testing focus.

 

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35 minutes ago, Flyer said:

Thanks for the reassurance not to return. Is the fact that the focus patch does not align at infinity mean that the camera needs calibration or could it still be within tollarance? 

Flyer

Pico's response #6 should be checked on your end first. For instance, the easiest way to test infinity is at night and looking at the moon. You twist the lens to infinity while looking through the rangefinder window. Does the focusing patch move slightly past the moon, stop before the moon, or land directly on it so the moon is sharp?

You can do this test with other (far away) subjects. Infinity doesn't mean that everything from near to far will be in focus.

I also agree with Pico's )#18 and Gobert (#5) regarding testing the camera with a known quantity. To do this, you will have to go to a camera shop that can provide you with a Leica Lens or they can test for you. 

I love that you took the plunge with Leica but I my personal thoughts is that you should try to buy a NEW Zeiss ZM or Leica Summarit lens as the leicahood of having a calibrated and precision lens is significantly better out of the box and eliminates having to have the skill to self adjust, test, etc.

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10 hours ago, Flyer said:

I bought the M10 yesterday on Ebay and took a few shots but it appears that the Patch does not line up at infinity. I have tried 3 lenses, all three are 7 Artisan which I know are cheap lenses, could this be the lenses or could it be that the camera needs re-aligning? If so what would the cost be?

Interestingly the images appear to be in sharp focus?! I focused on John Moore alarm box at infinity but the patch was out of alignment.

Many Thanks

 

I just noticed in another post that you purchased the EVF. I recommend using that 100% of the time until you get this rangefinder question answered. This will ensure that what you are focusing on is in focus until you know the finder and lens is calibrated. 

Don't get frustrated! It is very easy once you are up and running.

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