AlanJW Posted March 7, 2019 Share #61 Posted March 7, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 11 minutes ago, robkimbaker said: The fact that the new Q2 has a 47MP sensor in it basically ordains that a future M model will have a larger sensor. Why? Because most camera consumers (including the vast majority of Leica consumers) believe that more MP's = better camera. It's going to happen. Leica will do it just like every other camera company out there...because they all have to compete and introduce new "seemingly better" features to keep selling more cameras...and to make you think that your old camera in now out-dated and inadequate...time to upgrade! That is reality. It is going to happen because it needs to be done to make money. You may be right but 24mp was the "sweet spot", or so we were told. The Q, M and SL all have 24mp FF sensors, though not necessarily the same. It is, therefore, quite possible the SL2 and M11 will have 47mp. Just recalibrating the sweet spot. It wasn't that long ago that many thought 10mp was quite enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Hi AlanJW, Take a look here Is a 47 MB sensor coming soon?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted March 7, 2019 Share #62 Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, AlanJW said: It wasn't that long ago that many thought 10mp was quite enough. Getty still sell images that I took on 6 & 10 MPixel cameras ....... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Miranda Posted March 7, 2019 Share #63 Posted March 7, 2019 M11 with 47MP and image stabilization, yeah, sure, i would upgrade, why not. Acknowledging that the image is more important than pixel count, and that 6MP cameras have produced beautiful images... but, storage is practically free, so who wouldn't want a future ability to enlarge further as needed or crop more tightly when using a lens with less reach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeger Posted March 7, 2019 Share #64 Posted March 7, 2019 don't forget to use CFexpress card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted March 7, 2019 Share #65 Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, pgk said: Well changing field of view by in-camera cropping is a real compromise in my book. And I'm sorry but not getting things right in camera IS fundamentally lazy. There is no other way to put it. When one reaches a "certain age", lazy feels good. 🙂 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 7, 2019 Share #66 Posted March 7, 2019 More MP is inevitable. Desirable? Does it really matter? Not really. We’re well into the law of diminishing returns. IBIS? My recollection is that Leica had very many, very good reasons why this won’t happen in an M. Didn’t happen with the SL, hasn’t happened with the Q2. Maybe the SL2 will be the first. Is it really necessary? Or is 5 axis stabilisation just another must have that OH MY GOD the Huff-Meister thinks FANTABULOUS? No idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted March 7, 2019 Share #67 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The camera market is in decline and everyone interested in photography already owns a camera that is sufficient for almost any use. So the camera makers challenge is to convince us that our current bodies are obsolete and must be replaced with the latest and greatest or we risk being made fun of due to the limitations of our gear. I've read a lot of posts on different photography forums that make me think they are successful in this. Edited March 7, 2019 by Luke_Miller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted March 7, 2019 Share #68 Posted March 7, 2019 Agree. And this is the reason why we will probably see a new M with more MPs, IBIS or some other easily marketed new features already found in many other cameras. While a more sensible (and sustainable) alternative would be to offer a factory upgrade for the M10 with an improved 24MP sensor (better high ISO performance) and maybe some other smaller improvements that can be made on an existing body. But this would not create enough revenue nor attract that many new customers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 7, 2019 Share #69 Posted March 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said: The camera market is in decline and everyone interested in photography already owns a camera that is sufficient for almost any use. So the camera makers challenge is to convince us that our current bodies are obsolete and must be replaced with the latest and greatest or we risk being made fun of due to the limitations of our gear. I've read a lot of posts on different photography forums that make me think they are successful in this. You are absolutely right. But at some point everyone will finally realise that their existing gear has too few limitations to make upgrading worthwhile (actually its happened already to some extent - I certainly won't upgrade my M9s until they stop working because I see no need to do so for what I use them for). And what do manufacturers do when they ca't offer yet another 'better' digital upgrade? A shrunk market almost certainly means less players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 7, 2019 Share #70 Posted March 7, 2019 I read this whole thread and want my ten-minutes back. At the moment right beside me I have my Kodak Master View (8x10") and making a final CLA. While I use it I'll think back to this thread. Not!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 7, 2019 Share #71 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) While the 47MP sensor in the Q2 lends credence to a similar sensor in the next M, I was interested in this comment by Toni Felsner about the S3: Quote So the sensor features a dual gain structure, which allows us to maximize higher ISO performance. In our test shooting, ISO 6400 looks super clean. Almost no noise whatsoever. And, the noise profile on the files at even higher settings looks less like noise, and more like grain. Also, we implemented a new color filter array, which is going to offer really amazing color. We will tune the output for skin tone, but it will work extremely well for a wide variety of applications like landscape, architecture, fine art, etc. You’ll especially see an improvement in the red channel, which has always been challenging for digital photographers when photographing bright reds, like automotive paint, or flowers in the sun. I haven’t done the maths on down sizing the 64MP S3 sensor to 135 format, but this might be a more interesting development ... Edited March 7, 2019 by IkarusJohn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted March 7, 2019 Share #72 Posted March 7, 2019 5 hours ago, robkimbaker said: The fact that the new Q2 has a 47MP sensor in it basically ordains that a future M model will have a larger sensor. Why? Because most camera consumers (including the vast majority of Leica consumers) believe that more MP's = better camera. It's going to happen. Leica will do it just like every other camera company out there...because they all have to compete and introduce new "seemingly better" features to keep selling more cameras...and to make you think that your old camera in now out-dated and inadequate...time to upgrade! That is reality. It is going to happen because it needs to be done to make money. I think if Leica was smart, they would produce an M10.2 with a 47mp sensor within the next six months rather than waiting 2years and getting potential M buyers hooked on the Q2, and SL2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TG14 Posted March 8, 2019 Share #73 Posted March 8, 2019 When you crop from a 28mm to say a 50mm, eventhough the field of view is 50, dont you still the perspective (distortion if any) of the 28? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 8, 2019 Share #74 Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) If you could change the lens itself from the 28 Summilux to a 50 Summilux, taken from the same place, the perspective does not change, other than the crop ... Edited March 8, 2019 by IkarusJohn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2019 Share #75 Posted March 8, 2019 Perspective is a function of the position of the camera/photographer, not of focal length or crop. If you crop a print using scissors, the perspective won't change either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted March 8, 2019 Share #76 Posted March 8, 2019 The high ISO performance from 3200 up looks much better from the OG Q from what I saw on S Reid's website. I'd personally opt to stick with 24mp on the next iteration I don't get into this up-rez/down-rez game so downsampling to 24mp to make the ISO look better doesn't make sense to me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 8, 2019 Share #77 Posted March 8, 2019 10 hours ago, pico said: At the moment right beside me I have my Kodak Master View (8x10") and making a final CLA. While I use it I'll think back to this thread. Not!! Think about it when you are shooting at f/64. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2019 Share #78 Posted March 8, 2019 I'm sure that 47 MP will sell M11 cameras, but I am puzzled by the photographic sense it would make on an M camera. It still wouldn't make it a preferred landscape camera - that field is covered by medium format and tripods-, not will suddenly make it a perfect wildlife option by cropping to 300 mm. The only result will be images that are indistinguishable from the M9/M240/M10 but requiring a bit more technique from the user. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 8, 2019 Share #79 Posted March 8, 2019 The fact that the 'advantages' on such a sensor are even being discussed means that, as has been mentioned, the law of diminishing returns is in full force. I'm with Jaap on this. Its possible but what will it really achieve? Do we really want to keep on going down this path and see 100+ MPixel sensors in an M because they 'have to keep up' in a never ending number's race? At some point increased MPixels will produce zero actual gains. Do we wait until then or do we accept the M for what it is and request more sensitivity, greater dynamic range, etc. There are many more options that would benefit the M rather than boosting its MPixels. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2019 Share #80 Posted March 8, 2019 It is the monkey gene in us: fifty small bananas is far better than twenty five big ones... 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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