BJohn Posted February 18, 2019 Share #1 Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi there, I experienced some minor issue with my M10. I have a few of those (see the attachted photograph) spots. Haven't noticed those until yesterday. Of course, I extremely processed the photograph to see the effect a bit more. I cannot really see those spots with ISO800 or lower. Photographing the sky, I can also not really reproduce them. Only with high ISO (I guess something like 3200 or more) and a bit of shadow uplifting. I cannot really identify any thing on the sensor by looking at it. I will receive my sensor cleaning kit tomorrow and try to get rid of those with a liquid sensor cleaning kit. Any ideas or similar experiences? Thanks a lot in advance! Cheers, Ben! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 18, 2019 by BJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/294429-condensed-water-spots/?do=findComment&comment=3686729'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 Hi BJohn, Take a look here Condensed water spots?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkmoore Posted February 19, 2019 Share #2 Posted February 19, 2019 Is the image cropped? They look like big dust spots to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 19, 2019 Share #3 Posted February 19, 2019 I've no definitive idea either, but it could well be condensation. If the air was cold and humid, and the battery hot, or the camera had been under your coat then straight into the cold air, but whatever they don't really look like dust. To see dust you need the lens stopped down, and in this picture it appears wide open, and what you see is the shadow of dust as the light hits it at an oblique angle due to the small aperture. So this is something that is flat on the sensor and traditionally this is what oil spots looked like when the M9 was plagued with them, but I haven't really seen any evidence the M10 suffers from oil thrown from the shutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonM Posted February 19, 2019 Share #4 Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) It is interesting that most of them are in a row across the bottom of the frame, in a relatively straight line, and are all about the same size. Not sure if this would be condensation. Edited February 19, 2019 by RonM Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 19, 2019 Share #5 Posted February 19, 2019 Could be just reflections from the lights, bouncing off the rear of the lens/sensor. Were you using a filter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted February 19, 2019 Hi there, I tried a liquid sensor cleaning, a few times. Still there. No reflections at all, because it happens across all of my lenses and I can reproduce it easily. Here a few shots (EXIF information inside): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c2kkji66kjis6jy/AAAwaV7CYs97KvLtTwMPF-f3a?dl=0 It seems to me, that I can not see it under ISO3200. These are only examples, I have a lot of shots in which these spots are visible. Hmm maybe I need to send the camera in. Any other idea, what could cause these spots? Cheers! Ben John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 19, 2019 Share #7 Posted February 19, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) New shutters can sometimes spit oil onto the sensor but I would have expected them to be gone after several wet cleans. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share #8 Posted February 19, 2019 I have done a little research through my Lightroom gallery. The spots are existing nearly since I bought the camera. Roughly one month later I can detect those, only high iso, only if I push the shadows that high. I cannot really reproduce it under ISO3200. If I push beyond or to ISO32000, I can also not really detect those spots. It seems to me, that they only appear between ISO12500 and ISO20000, sometimes ISO6400, very rarely ISO3200 (two images in total, I took over 6k). I uploaded some RAWs if anybody wants to play around with those. I am going to contact Customer Care and bring in my camera. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lb16rnd5fe1d7qg/AACkado9x5Uvueg9hNLkv9Sxa?dl=0 Cheers! Ben John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich Posted February 19, 2019 Share #9 Posted February 19, 2019 I'm pretty sure that these are oil spots. I had the same patterns with my Leica SL. They were gone after wet cleaning(alcohol based cleaning fluid) Surprisingly I got the same problems again the following year and this year now the third time. Every time after i was out taking pictures at very frosty temperatures. One would rather expect oil drops under hot conditions when the viscosity is much lower but what do I know.😏 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share #10 Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, mich said: I'm pretty sure that these are oil spots. I had the same patterns with my Leica SL. They were gone after wet cleaning(alcohol based cleaning fluid) Surprisingly I got the same problems again the following year and this year now the third time. Every time after i was out taking pictures at very frosty temperatures. One would rather expect oil drops under hot conditions when the viscosity is much lower but what do I know.😏 I had the same thoughts. I cleaned quite a few times, used pure Spiritus + Q-Tips and the VSGO Kit (Swabs + Fluid Cleaner). The sensor looks ultimately clean and shiny. Everything is good, but still the same spots (nothing changed, not a single spot is gone)! And what really makes me freak out is the fact, that I only see them in a very specific ISO area. I mean, if it really is oil or some other dirt on the sensor, or in between one of those sensor layers, wouldn't I see that dirt on every single image, regardless of the ISO? Curious... Cheers! Edited February 20, 2019 by BJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share #11 Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jaapv said: In that case, why don't you take the camera in for a sensor clean to a Leica Store? You'll soon be told whether this is dirt or something requiring further attention. I'm just curious what other people experienced. Leica is not very near and always a bit annoying to drive there because of some camera issue. But you are right, I am going to hand my camera over to the Customer Care in Wetzlar. Sensor cleaning shouldn't change a thing. I brought my camera in for a sensor cleaning about 6 months ago. Photographs before and after that appointment contain the same spots. They shouldn't have anything to do with the sensor glass / the layer we can easily reach and clean. Edited February 20, 2019 by BJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 20, 2019 Share #12 Posted February 20, 2019 Ideally you need a sensor cleaning fluid that is designed for removing oil and grease spots, but I would have thought you'd at least have improved things with an ordinary fluid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted February 20, 2019 Share #13 Posted February 20, 2019 Could it be drops that made their way from your defective Summilux 28 to your sensor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share #14 Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, M9reno said: Could it be drops that made their way from your defective Summilux 28 to your sensor? Today I visited Leica in Wetzlar. They tried to clean the sensor again without any success. Let's see what the technicians find out. It feels that either the sensor got some issues or the spots are in one of the other sensor layers. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2019 Share #15 Posted February 20, 2019 Probably a sensor replacement. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark II Posted February 20, 2019 Share #16 Posted February 20, 2019 As Jaap says, if cleaning does not fix the problem it will need a sensor replacement. FWIW, I had something visually identical on some images at the weekend, which were shot at night with a lens wide-open at high ISO and with a subsequent shadow lift. Seems to have been a dust spec, as subsequently cleaning the sensor (just with a blower bulb) fixed it for me. To see them clearly it needed a much higher shadow lift than I am ever likely to ever be able to use anyway (banding and noise - even if DXO "prime" is almost magical in what it can do compared to Adobe/CaptureOne!). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted February 20, 2019 Share #17 Posted February 20, 2019 Don't mention QC for heavens sake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share #18 Posted February 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mark II said: As Jaap says, if cleaning does not fix the problem it will need a sensor replacement. FWIW, I had something visually identical on some images at the weekend, which were shot at night with a lens wide-open at high ISO and with a subsequent shadow lift. Seems to have been a dust spec, as subsequently cleaning the sensor (just with a blower bulb) fixed it for me. To see them clearly it needed a much higher shadow lift than I am ever likely to ever be able to use anyway (banding and noise - even if DXO "prime" is almost magical in what it can do compared to Adobe/CaptureOne!). Very interesting, sounds exactly like my problem. I cleaned the sensor quite a few times. Let's see what Leica says. Hopefully, it does not take too long Already miss my M10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJohn Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share #19 Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) Check, my M10 gets a new sensor. I wonder if I would have to pay for it if the guarantee would already be gone. And what also makes me a bit sad: I haven't got any information at all what exactly is broken and why (at least to a specific degree). Edited February 27, 2019 by BJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2019 Share #20 Posted February 27, 2019 Probably not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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