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'Hopelist' for SL2


LocalHero1953

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21 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Yes, sort of.  Not sure who suggested Luddites.

I see it slightly differently - backwards compatibility,  priority given to the best image quality and user experience within the product placement.  If there isn’t a good reason for including a feature, it doesn’t make the cut.

I doubt that MP count is a priority in itself.  I don’t think Leica ignores it, it’s just not an importanr driver one way or the other.  They will just be looking for the best sensor for a given camera.  That said, they won’t be ingnoring consumer demand.

I’d be surprised if IBIS or a flip screen will be included, but what do I know?

I've found that IBIS makes a dramatic improvement in image quality particularly when shutter speeds are in the danger zone, i.e., slower than 1/(2x FL).  It also makes manual focus with viewfinder magnification much easier.

Edited by wildlightphoto
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IBIS is a crucial feature. It is essential for pixel shift, and so a prerequisite of high res mode.  If a SL2 wants to be on top or at least more or less equal to S1R (as a professional stills camera), it will simply need it. In my eyes this is much more important than any fancy video features. (That are nice to have ...)

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1 hour ago, caissa said:

IBIS is a crucial feature. It is essential for pixel shift, and so a prerequisite of high res mode.

A little historical note: pixel shift predates IBIS by 10 years. If IBIS is essential for pixel shift, then Sinar (a Leica company...) never got the memo.

In my opinion, pixel shift is a gimmick unless you make a living photographing fabric or copying artwork. Very few images benefit from more resolution (just like very few paintings would benefit from smaller brushes), and even fewer of those are of still subjects.

I realize that we live in an era of big prints, but they go in and out of fashion very quickly. You can walk through the Louvre and guess a painting's age by the size of its canvas! My local art museum has a room that I like to call "huge paintings that haven't aged well." That room is always empty; a sea of tranquility in an otherwise busy establishment. The only problem is that you have to look at a bunch of high-concept canvases with more square footage than a suburban bungalow.

I realize that the new S1 has a software routine that attempts to re-construct what your subjects might have looked like, had they not been moving. It seems like the kind of thing one would try once or twice, to satisfy one's curiosity. I suspect that the real artistic goldmine will be forcing it to make grotesque errors, like those Google Earth images where people seem stuck in quicksand-like pavement.

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1 hour ago, caissa said:

IBIS is a crucial feature. It is essential for pixel shift, and so a prerequisite of high res mode.  If a SL2 wants to be on top or at least more or less equal to S1R (as a professional stills camera), it will simply need it. In my eyes this is much more important than any fancy video features. (That are nice to have ...)

Well, for me, IBIS isn’t crucial, nor is pixel shift and I have little to no interest in “high res mode”.  What makes a “professioinal stills camera” seems more than that, but what do I know?  What is apparent is that Leica is well aware what the opposition is up to, including Panasonic, and that Leica forms its own view on what is good for its cameras and what is not.  I seem to recall someone at Leica saying that IBIS doesn’t make the grade for its cameras - can’t remember who, and only vaguely remember why.  I read it and filed it under mildly interesting.

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Sinar obviously had another technology, would be interesting to know how they did it. (Is it "digital" or analogue ?) And obviously it has not survived the time (or did it ?) And obvious Panasonic is not using it, so the question is, is this relevant to this discussion ? (Or just another way off ?)

It is never the case that a feature is of interest to all users all the time. So if I do not need a feature I simply do not use it. And I do not go around and claim that I know exactly why it is unnecessary or even detrimental for all other users. ('nice to have' would be a friendly way of stating lacking interest).

And again: Nobody claimed that IBIS makes a professional camera. But the lack of it could be a point against it, because it inhibits the implementation of the high res mode as we know it from Panasonic. Do we need to discuss that many photographers would like to have this option ? Do we need to discuss again, that this is only valid in restricted circumstances ? Why do I have to talk about such nonsensical and never mentioned points. On a certain level, that I expected here, this is simply too stupid. Some discussions here are just unfriendly (I have no other word to explain the attitude between two parties not willing to find a compromise) and not containing enough good will to lead to a sensible conclusion in a reasonable time. I will not continue that. This is just a discussion between laymen and therefore only mildly interesting. (But some are obviously chasing the holy grail (of their own pompousness) even in digital cameras ...) B)

Edited by caissa
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No, they’ll likely price at a 75% premium to the S1R and for that the SL2 will have to offer the functionality of the Panasonic and technologically something on top that enhances the ‘user experience’ 😀 And I will get it just for that. In theory, there shouldn’t be any reason why Panasonic won’t license them IBIS and AF if they can make the same as with the S1R.

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12 hours ago, caissa said:

Sinar obviously had another technology, would be interesting to know how they did it.

My understanding is that the technology is related to "ultrasonic dust shake," moving the sensor by one pixel horizontally and/or vertically. IBIS requires a much higher range of movement (and at least one more axis, for rotational movement), so the sensor need to be on a moving platter. This leads to well-documented heat management issues.

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5 hours ago, Chaemono said:

It will be interesting to see how Leica will justify the significant price premium of the SL2 over the S1R.

Haha! That conversation is so familiar:

Person A: "Why would anybody ever buy an Audi when a Volkswagen costs 20% less?"

Person B: "Why would anybody ever buy a Volkswagen when an Audi when is only 20% more?"

These two people will never understand each other.

Obviously, in our case the cost difference is much smaller. It's more like the difference in cost between a 7-inch and an 8-inch navigation screen on the VW.

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