CL wheel settings

[reynoldsyoung]

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I rarely, if ever, use exposure compensation.  That may say something about me as a photographer.  But, is there any way to eliminate Exp Comp from the left wheel of the CL and add something of use there?  Many thanks for any direction here.

 

 

[pico]

5 minutes ago, reynoldsyoung said:

I rarely, if ever, use exposure compensation.

Sometimes I just let the camera operate on Automatic (shutter speed) with the justification that even HBC took the published defaults, for better or worse.

I add that I used hand-held meters for over twenty-years of my professional life and the in-camera A settings are better.

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[jaapv]

I used to dislike EV compensation as an inaccurate guess, preferring manual exposure. However, on the CL, being an EVF camera, the combination of the thumbwheel and EVF histogram makes for very precise exposure determination. I would not be without it. It is as good as using a spot meter

[bags27]

I confess I'm beginning to lose interest in exposure compensation. Sure, sometimes if it helps prevent blown highlights, but in post I can generally pull whatever I need out of shadows.

[berkdirt]

I agree with Jaap.  The EVF on the CL is amazing with exposure comp.  It's winter (snow) here in the northeast US and the ability to quickly correct exposure is remarkable.  Usually I don't bother with the histogram and just trust what the viewfinder (with clipping) shows me.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, bags27 said:

I confess I'm beginning to lose interest in exposure compensation. Sure, sometimes if it helps prevent blown highlights, but in post I can generally pull whatever I need out of shadows.

If you leave a gap at the righthand side of the histogram your are sacrificing both noise performance and dynamic range. If you scrunch  it up against the  righthand side you blow highlights. it works perfectly - and precisely, if you shift the histogram by the thumbwheel. The camera is designed perfectly for this use. I don't regard it as exposure compensation, but as exposure control.

[scott kirkpatrick]

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To answer the OP's question, No.  You can switch the roles of the left and right wheels.  You can choose a different role for the short press of the right wheel's center button by first giving it a long press, but except in manual mode, one of the wheels does exposure comp.  In manual mode, one wheel controls aperture (with an l-mount lens), the other controls shutter speed.  In the semi-automatic modes, one wheel controls whatever the camera doesn't, and the other controls exposure comp.

[reynoldsyoung]

Thanks, Scott!  That's what I found and was sure there was some sort of work-a-round...not so.  I sure appreciate your info otherwise, I would be trying to "beat the system" for days.  Ha!

[prismstorm]

On 2/4/2019 at 3:02 PM, scott kirkpatrick said:

To answer the OP's question, No.  You can switch the roles of the left and right wheels.  You can choose a different role for the short press of the right wheel's center button by first giving it a long press, but except in manual mode, one of the wheels does exposure comp.  In manual mode, one wheel controls aperture (with an l-mount lens), the other controls shutter speed.  In the semi-automatic modes, one wheel controls whatever the camera doesn't, and the other controls exposure comp.

 

On 2/4/2019 at 6:38 AM, jaapv said:

I used to dislike EV compensation as an inaccurate guess, preferring manual exposure. However, on the CL, being an EVF camera, the combination of the thumbwheel and EVF histogram makes for very precise exposure determination. I would not be without it. It is as good as using a spot meter

I have a question about the Exposure Compensation, as I do not know why it is moving in the opposite direction in all Modes (P, S, A or M). After assigning the top left wheel to control Exposure Compensation in all Modes in 'Customize Controls', I found that the EV decreases (EV value goes left (-) on the light meter) as I flick the wheel to the right (counterclockwise) and the EV increases (shifts to the right (+) on the light meter) if I flick it to the left (clockwise). This is very counter-intuitive as in A mode the wheels corresponds in the correct way (flick to the right to stop down aperture), but I can't seem to find a way to let me reverse the behavior of the EV via the top wheels.

In the SL's 'Customize Controls' menu, one can choose which direction (left or right) the front and back command dials stops down, and the Exposure Compensation behavior is logical (flick the wheel to the right and the EV value moves to the right). Experienced CL users, please help as I don't understand why the wheels are moving the opposite way of my SL's wheel and I got not method to reverse that. 

[prismstorm]

Just to add, the wheels controlling Shutter Speed in S or M mode also moves in the same counter-intuitive way as the Exposure Compensation does on the CL, I expect it to stop down (1/30 -> 1/60 -> 1/125) like the Aperture behavior does (f/1.4 -> f/2.8) when I flick the wheel to the right (counterclockwise) but it is the complete opposite, the shutter speed actually decreases as I flick to the right, which is doing my head in. As per above, I also can't find any option to reverse the direction. 

[Le Chef]

34 minutes ago, prismstorm said:

Just to add, the wheels controlling Shutter Speed in S or M mode also moves in the same counter-intuitive way as the Exposure Compensation does on the CL, I expect it to stop down (1/30 -> 1/60 -> 1/125) like the Aperture behavior does (f/1.4 -> f/2.8) when I flick the wheel to the right (counterclockwise) but it is the complete opposite, the shutter speed actually decreases as I flick to the right, which is doing my head in. As per above, I also can't find any option to reverse the direction. 

Agree - it’s counterintuitive. Maybe in a future dreamworld Leica will offer this as a program option along with having the focus point locked in the center as the default...

[prismstorm]

5 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Agree - it’s counterintuitive. Maybe in a future dreamworld Leica will offer this as a program option along with having the focus point locked in the center as the default...

The SL already has both: an option to choose which direction to stop down aperture and shutter speed, and a 'joystick lock' to lock the focus point to center. Don't know why the CL has neither. 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, prismstorm said:

Just to add, the wheels controlling Shutter Speed in S or M mode also moves in the same counter-intuitive way as the Exposure Compensation does on the CL, I expect it to stop down (1/30 -> 1/60 -> 1/125) like the Aperture behavior does (f/1.4 -> f/2.8) when I flick the wheel to the right (counterclockwise) but it is the complete opposite, the shutter speed actually decreases as I flick to the right, which is doing my head in. As per above, I also can't find any option to reverse the direction. 

Interesting observation. I never noticed and I use exposure compensation a lot. (1/30 -> 1/60 -> 1/125) is the way the Leica M6TTL and the digital Leica M models work when the shutter dial is turned counterclockwise. (1/125 -> 1/60 -> 1/30) is the way the M6, older M models, and the MP work when the shutter dial is turned counterclockwise. Seems, the CL behaves like an MP in this sense. That's why it never disturbed me because my M cameras are MP models. Agreed, it would be optimal to leave it to the user to determine the preferred direction.

[ramarren]

Seems intuitive to me. I haven't turned the dial the wrong way yet. 🤫

Edited April 24, 2019 by ramarren

[lenspeeper]

 

2 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Agree - it’s counterintuitive. Maybe in a future dreamworld Leica will offer this as a program option along with having the focus point locked in the center as the default...

If you read Jono Slack's hands-on review of the CL, that was his major complaint as well. Since his review was done when the camera was introduced and he has a relationship with Leica, they didn't take the hint then and it is unlikely that they will ever, I guess we will have to live with it. Illogical and inconvenient but it is no big deal.

See: http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-cl.html

[Le Chef]

6 hours ago, lenspeeper said:

 

If you read Jono Slack's hands-on review of the CL, that was his major complaint as well. Since his review was done when the camera was introduced and he has a relationship with Leica, they didn't take the hint then and it is unlikely that they will ever, I guess we will have to live with it. Illogical and inconvenient but it is no big deal.

See: http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-cl.html

It’s a pity that Leica accept such sloppy pieces of UI/UX design, and then do nothing to correct it. 

[lenspeeper]

4 hours ago, Le Chef said:

It’s a pity that Leica accept such sloppy pieces of UI/UX design, and then do nothing to correct it. 

I disagree. It may be contrary to our preferences.  But it is hardly sloppy. It is a quirky decision on their part, but since we have made such an issue of it, I'll bet we'll never make the mistake of turning the wrong dial again.

[Le Chef]

7 hours ago, lenspeeper said:

I disagree. It may be contrary to our preferences.  But it is hardly sloppy. It is a quirky decision on their part, but since we have made such an issue of it, I'll bet we'll never make the mistake of turning the wrong dial again.

The whole point of good UI and UX is that it fits the way the user thinks and behaves. Good UI/UX designers observe human behavior and then make sure whatever they're designing fits the way we intuitively approach things. This philosophy goes back to Xerox Park through pioneering design engineers like Bill Moggridge. Leica's approach seems contrarian in every sense of the word: like just arbitrarily choosing to design a clock to work anti-clockwise. They either chose to be deliberately different - in which case why does the SL offer a choice? Or they just never bothered to observe what photographers preferred to do.

[lenspeeper]

14 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

The whole point of good UI and UX is that it fits the way the user thinks and behaves. Good UI/UX designers observe human behavior and then make sure whatever they're designing fits the way we intuitively approach things. This philosophy goes back to Xerox Park through pioneering design engineers like Bill Moggridge. Leica's approach seems contrarian in every sense of the word: like just arbitrarily choosing to design a clock to work anti-clockwise. They either chose to be deliberately different - in which case why does the SL offer a choice? Or they just never bothered to observe what photographers preferred to do.

Good grief. How the H_ll should I know? Leica made its design choices and if one buys the camera or doesn't, it's the buyers decision. If the choice is to buy it, it is because most features outweigh those of the competition. I consider this to be a minor issue. If you want major issues, buy a Sony and deal with their customer unfriendly features like their menus and the inability to disable poorly placed video buttons, etc. BTW, I Understand that the latest download allows one to interchange the wheel function. If so, it is not an issue.

Edited April 25, 2019 by lenspeeper

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[geoffreyg]

29 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

The whole point of good UI and UX is that it fits the way the user thinks and behaves. Good UI/UX designers observe human behavior and then make sure whatever they're designing fits the way we intuitively approach things. This philosophy goes back to Xerox Park through pioneering design engineers like Bill Moggridge. Leica's approach seems contrarian in every sense of the word: like just arbitrarily choosing to design a clock to work anti-clockwise. They either chose to be deliberately different - in which case why does the SL offer a choice? Or they just never bothered to observe what photographers preferred to do.

Really? A bit of an overreaction to a design decision. You can be assured if they designed something someway, they had a reason. They always do. You might disagree with their assumptions or their conclusions, but flippant they are not. Never have been.