Jump to content
mikeamosau

M10 Monochrom in 2-3 months

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

For example, if they decided to use a version of the 47MP sensor, they can lower the base ISO to 100 again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sure would be nice to have a Monochrome version of the M10, so I could travel with one battery charger...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as I'm concerned, the M10 Monochrom is already here. I've always had a strong preference for b&w, but after getting my MM1 sensor replaced I was not able to find the magic of the original so I sold it. I now have one of my M10s set up for b&w only and it's working great in my opinion. I know it's going to sound like sacrilege to suggest shooting JPG instead of DNG, but that's what I've been doing and the results have been at least as good as what I got with my MM1. I have the M10 file format set for JPG only, and in JPG Settings I have Monochrom "On." This forces me to think in b&w terms when shooting because what i see on the LCD is b&w. 

For post processing, I still use the adjustments in ACR just as I would for a DNG file. The JPG files are very flexible and adjust readily. I then open in Photoshop and use either Silver Efex or Topaz B&W Effects 2 for fine tuning. The examples here are just a few quick shots in the house from this morning for demonstration purposes, and a shot of my friend's car. I had previously photographed the car from the same angle with my MM1 and would be hard pressed to say one is better than the other. The bottom line here is that I'm quite happy using one of my M10 bodies as a Monochrom and plan to continue doing it for a long time, whether Leica bring out a M10 Monochrom or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I was out walking yesterday and shot a couple more b&w JPGs that show the tonal range and image quality of the M10 when shooting JPG only with Monochrom turned on. I spent about one minute in post on each image doing fine tuning. They came out of the camera looking beatiful.

 

Edited by fotografr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Leica dealer in the UK sent out a note to say that M240 and M246 (Monochrom) were discounted by GBP 1250 immediately.

Leica don't pull prices lower unless there is an impending announcement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, Peter Kilmister said:

A Leica dealer in the UK sent out a note to say that M240 and M246 (Monochrom) were discounted by GBP 1250 immediately.

Leica don't pull prices lower unless there is an impending announcement.

Yes, that's usually a very solid clue.  They have also dropped the price of the SL in two different kits. I wonder what that signifies?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/8/2019 at 11:46 PM, padam said:

For example, if they decided to use a version of the 47MP sensor, they can lower the base ISO to 100 again.

Somehow I doubt both - I may be wrong, but there’s a difference between removing the Bayer array from the existing sensor, and changing the sensor altogether to 47MP; and removing the Bayer array from the M9 increased base ISO from 160 to 320 ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fotografr said:

I was out walking yesterday and shot a couple more b&w JPGs that show the tonal range and image quality of the M10 when shooting JPG only with Monochrom turned on. I spent about one minute in post on each image doing fine tuning. They came out of the camera looking beatiful.

Tonality looks good. Nice job.

In fairness, I would just note that a Monochrom does have other theoretical advantages - slightly better fine texture and edge detail due to no "deBayerizing" or swapping/blurring tonality between neighboring pixels, and (as John notes above) at least a stop of higher ISO sensitivity by removing the light-blocking "filter factors" of the RGB filters.

Add to that the "coolness factor" of having just about the only pure-Monochrome camera in production, and there will be a continuing market for an M10M. Eventually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, adan said:

theoretical advantages

For me it was more than theoretical when I compared M10 and MM1. Not that it would justify buying an MM1 if you have an M10 already and if you wouldn’t have an MM1 yet. But having both, I certainly would climb a mountain with both bodies,  for making landscapes in color and b&w. Slightly better fine texture indeed! And the way Mandler lenses come out on the MM1 is very special to me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, adan said:

 

Add to that the "coolness factor" of having just about the only pure-Monochrome camera in production, and there will be a continuing market for an M10M. Eventually.

I'm sure you're right. I'm equally sure I'll be checking one out when it's released. But for the time being I'm completely satisfied with my b&w M10. The difference would have to be significant for me to make the additional investment in the M10M, however.

Edited by fotografr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, otto.f said:

For me it was more than theoretical when I compared M10 and MM1. Not that it would justify buying an MM1 if you have an M10 already and if you wouldn’t have an MM1 yet. But having both, I certainly would climb a mountain with both bodies,  for making landscapes in color and b&w. Slightly better fine texture indeed! And the way Mandler lenses come out on the MM1 is very special to me

Given a choice between the original MM1 and the M10 set for b&w, I would  likely choose the MM1. That was my all time favorite camera. I'm not sure who made the original CCDs for them (Kodak?), but after having my corroded sensor replaced I was never able to achieve the same look with my images. My belief is that Leica secured replacement CCDs from a different source, but I have no direct knowledge of that. I've been tempted to purchase a used MM1 with the original sensor and use it until the corrosion issue happens, then just bin the thing. A little voice in my ear has so far prevented me from doing that. Also, while I don't doubt there are advantages to the MM1, my eyes are not capable of seeing the differences.

Edited by fotografr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, fotografr said:

Given a choice between the original MM1 and the M10 set for b&w, I would absolutely choose the MM1. That was my all time favorite camera. I'm not sure who made the original CCDs for them (Kodak?), but after having my corroded sensor replaced I was never able to achieve the same look with my images. My belief is that Leica secured replacement CCDs from a different source, but I have no direct knowledge of that. I've been tempted to purchase a used MM1 with the original sensor and just use it until the corrosion issue happens, then just bin the thing. A little voice in my ear has so far prevented me from doing that.

I tend to agree with you. Can’t part with my Monochrom v1 but also have the subjective feeling that the replacement sensor doesn’t image quite the same.  Does anyone know one way or the other?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, MarkP said:

I tend to agree with you. Can’t part with my Monochrom v1 but also have the subjective feeling that the replacement sensor doesn’t image quite the same.  Does anyone know one way or the other?

I've tried researching that question and the only thing I've found that might indicate Leica was forced to find a different source for replacement CCDs is this:

https://www.baslerweb.com/en/products/tools/ccd-transition-advisor/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9LG4lsTm4gIVFarsCh2K-ANjEAMYASAAEgLCrvD_BwE#monocolor=mono

Edited by fotografr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt the sensor manufacturer changed - except in name (was Kodak, then spun off in Kodak's bankruptcy as TrueSense, then purchased by ON Semiconductor.) It's a proprietary design, never used by any other camera (Leica had "special needs") and thus rather expensive to reverse-engineer for a limited and "extinct" market.

Rather like asking VW to "make me a replacement engine for my 1992 Ford." ;)

The sensor package did change, obviously (different Schott cover-glass type with corrosion-proof coatings, possibly with slightly different light transmission), and did not the firmware also change? I can't remember the exact Schott glass type originally used, and the more corrosion-resistant product Schott also made (but Leica chose not to use) - but all that was discussed at length way back when corrosion first reared its ugly head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

My recollection is that it wasn't the Schott glass, per se, that caused the problem, but rather the adhesive used to adhere the glass to the sensor. At any rate, I had two MM1 bodies and both exhibited a noticeable drop in image quality after sensor replacement. I don't recall if there was a firmware change.

Edited by fotografr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/12/2019 at 3:32 PM, fotografr said:

I was out walking yesterday and shot a couple more b&w JPGs that show the tonal range and image quality of the M10 when shooting JPG only with Monochrom turned on. I spent about one minute in post on each image doing fine tuning. They came out of the camera looking beatiful.

 

Are these the standard B+W jpgs or high contrast?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gotium said:

Are these the standard B+W jpgs or high contrast?

They are the standard. I increased the blacks slightly in ACR and bumped up the contrast just a bit in the Topaz Labs B&W Effects 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, fotografr said:

They are the standard. I increased the blacks slightly in ACR and bumped up the contrast just a bit in the Topaz Labs B&W Effects 2.

Very nice. I do like the way they came out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep hearing contradicting messages about a potential M10M, if there is one I will probably get it, although I agree that B&W images from the M10 are great, too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...