Leica M10-P Edition "SAFARI"

[dkmoore]

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On 1/31/2019 at 12:50 PM, jdlaing said:

1500 kits and 500 additional lenses later.

Incorrect. Will be sold separately. 

[jimleicam3]

Any photos of the Safari with a black lens?

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[lcd32bit]

Some photos of different lenses on the Safari. Silver chrome lenses of course look best, but the black paint one isn't too bad. The standard black lenses with yellow lettering contrast a bit much.

Safari w/ 50 Noct 0.95

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Safari w/ 35 Lux AA Black Paint

 

Safari w/ 35 Lux FLE Silver

 

[jimleicam3]

Thanks!

[coz]

Congrats looks cool.  Are you going to get the new 50 cron as well?  I wish they made the 50 apo in olive instead personally.

I read that this is an enamel finish. Can you tell at all from the feel? Do you think it's a more durable finish on the body?

Best 

[lcd32bit]

39 minutes ago, coz said:

Congrats looks cool.  Are you going to get the new 50 cron as well?  I wish they made the 50 apo in olive instead personally.

I read that this is an enamel finish. Can you tell at all from the feel? Do you think it's a more durable finish on the body?

Best 

Naw, I didn't bother getting the Safari color 50 Cron. I already have the 50 Lux and 50 Noct 0.95, and I already know I wouldn't use the Cron at all so it's just a waste of $$$$. I also wish they made the 50 APO instead, but I suspect it would cost way too much!

Yes it is indeed an enamel-like finish, but it definitely is not 'durable' in that wear shows. My MP "Oliv" already has some light scratches on the body, and my Safari Ultravid bins have some heavy wear on it. Oddly enough, I think Black Paint is the most 'durable' finish, in that light scratches don't really show, and the edges do wear with use it's quite beautiful.

Edited February 4, 2019 by lcd32bit
adding APO note

[coz]

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Thanks for the info.  

I'm certainly tempted by this one. 

[Stripey Badger]

This makes no sense at all unless you intend to be a one lens Leica user. And if I was I would want the 50 Summilux. Why would I be tempted to buy that body when I have four silver lenses? And why would anyone buy a green lens if they have one of the two standard bodies? Plain stupid. Oh, and those four silver knobs and buttons to the front of the camera. They are hideous. They should be green too or otherwise toned down.
 
Leica are not at all focused, they are all over the place, just like Apple these days under Tim Cook. There may be some justification (but not much) for the odd tweak but it seems to my suspicious mind that Leica are simply greedy, always looking for another way to sting the loyal customer.  I am not interested in tweaks, I want real IMPROVEMENTS. A silent 8,000 shutter, a 36, better still 48 megapixel sensor, get some genius to figure out image stabilisation and autofocus built into the body. Hell, at the prices they charge and the glacial rate of progress that shouldn’t be impossible. When it happens I’ll buy that M11 or whatever but not until then. My 240 will easily outlast my lifetime.

[Paulus]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Stripey Badger:

This makes no sense at all unless you intend to be a one lens Leica user. And if I was I would want the 50 Summilux. Why would I be tempted to buy that body when I have four silver lenses? And why would anyone buy a green lens if they have one of the two standard bodies? Plain stupid. Oh, and those four silver knobs and buttons to the front of the camera. They are hideous. They should be green too or otherwise toned down.
 
Leica are not at all focused, they are all over the place, just like Apple these days under Tim Cook. There may be some justification (but not much) for the odd tweak but it seems to my suspicious mind that Leica are simply greedy, always looking for another way to sting the loyal customer.  I am not interested in tweaks, I want real IMPROVEMENTS. A silent 8,000 shutter, a 36, better still 48 megapixel sensor, get some genius to figure out image stabilisation and autofocus built into the body. Hell, at the prices they charge and the glacial rate of progress that shouldn’t be impossible. When it happens I’ll buy that M11 or whatever but not until then. My 240 will easily outlast my lifetime.

Oh...I was just considering to buy a green lens for my M240 chrome.... for nostalgic reasons...😟 

[farnz]

2 hours ago, Stripey Badger said:

This makes no sense at all unless you intend to be a one lens Leica user. And if I was I would want the 50 Summilux. Why would I be tempted to buy that body when I have four silver lenses? And why would anyone buy a green lens if they have one of the two standard bodies? Plain stupid. Oh, and those four silver knobs and buttons to the front of the camera. They are hideous. They should be green too or otherwise toned down.
 
Leica are not at all focused, they are all over the place, just like Apple these days under Tim Cook. There may be some justification (but not much) for the odd tweak but it seems to my suspicious mind that Leica are simply greedy, always looking for another way to sting the loyal customer.  I am not interested in tweaks, I want real IMPROVEMENTS. A silent 8,000 shutter, a 36, better still 48 megapixel sensor, get some genius to figure out image stabilisation and autofocus built into the body. Hell, at the prices they charge and the glacial rate of progress that shouldn’t be impossible. When it happens I’ll buy that M11 or whatever but not until then. My 240 will easily outlast my lifetime.

So ... because Leica doesn't produce precisely what you'd like to buy they're "plain stupid" and "not at all focussed" and "simply greedy"?  Perhaps you're right but if that was the case then they'd have no customers and as a business they would have folded years ago yet Leica has survived for more than 100 years and watched as so many of the other camera companies have folded and remain mere memories so Leica must be doing something right.

Other camera companies are busy working on producing and refining the IMPROVEMENTS you're looking for but it's rarely been the Leica way to chase already-crowded markets through gadgetry; it's more to produce new products that offer choices that other companies don't and so to improve photographers' experiences while promoting product longevity, hence the more sedate rate of new products, many of which have been and are still ground-breaking.

Pete.

[pico]

19 minutes ago, farnz said:

Leica are not at all focused, they are all over the place, just like Apple these days under Tim Cook.

Perhaps you were away during Mr. Pepsi's leadership when Apple had a totally irrational product line, and some truly terrible commodity boxes disguised as computers.

 

[farnz]

Wrong quote attribution I'm afraid, Pico, Stripey Badger wrote that, not I.🙂

Pete.

Edited February 4, 2019 by farnz

[pico]

1 hour ago, farnz said:

Wrong quote attribution I'm afraid, Pico, Stripey Badger wrote that, not I.🙂

Pete.

Gosh I hate it when I do that. It might be the forum software. Dunno.
But sorry nonetheless, Pete.

[Stripey Badger]

18 hours ago, farnz said:

So ... because Leica doesn't produce precisely what you'd like to buy they're "plain stupid" and "not at all focussed" and "simply greedy"?  Perhaps you're right but if that was the case then they'd have no customers and as a business they would have folded years ago yet Leica has survived for more than 100 years and watched as so many of the other camera companies have folded and remain mere memories so Leica must be doing something right.

Other camera companies are busy working on producing and refining the IMPROVEMENTS you're looking for but it's rarely been the Leica way to chase already-crowded markets through gadgetry; it's more to produce new products that offer choices that other companies don't and so to improve photographers' experiences while promoting product longevity, hence the more sedate rate of new products, many of which have been and are still ground-breaking.

Oh dear. I criticise Leica and it’s like I just swore in church. They did NOT think it through. The green Leica looks terrific, but only at its best with its dedicated lens. Otherwise TO SOME PEOPLE it looks plain wrong., like brown boots at a wedding. Of course Leica have been successful and influenced photography out of all proportion to their size but they do get things wrong sometimes. We all could think of a half dozen. Greedy? Look at the price of accessories that are part of another maker’s spec.Correction lens for £120 when, say, Nikon provided half a dozen values built into my old F5. A lens cap for £48? Just for the name 'Leica' when a plain one is literally pennies?

I don’t expect Leica to compete with the Sonys and Canons for 'gadgetry,' their product’s desirability does not depend on that, I pay through the nose for superb lenses and unsurpassed  build quality but in return I expect them to get the really important things right. Don’t give me video when I can get a Go Pro for the price of a couple of filters. OK, so they dropped that, but they got it wrong. Why wait four or five years for a sensor upgrade? Leica are like any other company operating in a relatively free market, they charge as much as they think they can get away with. That’s what capitalism is all about and I’m 100% for it, but there reaches a point (a £48 lens cap) when I start to resent it. That costs any company good will and too much of that alienates the fan base.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Stripey Badger
tidy up

[Stripey Badger]

18 hours ago, pico said:

Perhaps you were away during Mr. Pepsi's leadership when Apple had a totally irrational product line, and some truly terrible commodity boxes disguised as computers.

 

 I was talking about Apple today. That was an aside. My MacBook lasted me eight years. I expect my 240 and Summilux 50 will be recording my own funeral

[Paulus]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Stripey Badger:

 I was talking about Apple today. That was an aside. My MacBook lasted me eight years. I expect my 240 and Summilux 50 will be recording my own funeral

Welcome to the forum. I hope you stay as long as your camera lasts!

[dkmoore]

6 hours ago, Stripey Badger said:

Oh dear. I criticise Leica and it’s like I just swore in church. They did NOT think it through. The green Leica looks terrific, but only at its best with its dedicated lens. Otherwise TO SOME PEOPLE it looks plain wrong., like brown boots at a wedding. Of course Leica have been successful and influenced photography out of all proportion to their size but they do get things wrong sometimes. We all could think of a half dozen. Greedy? Look at the price of accessories that are part of another maker’s spec.Correction lens for £120 when, say, Nikon provided half a dozen values built into my old F5. A lens cap for £48? Just for the name 'Leica' when a plain one is literally pennies?

I don’t expect Leica to compete with the Sonys and Canons for 'gadgetry,' their product’s desirability does not depend on that, I pay through the nose for superb lenses and unsurpassed  build quality but in return I expect them to get the really important things right. Don’t give me video when I can get a Go Pro for the price of a couple of filters. OK, so they dropped that, but they got it wrong. Why wait four or five years for a sensor upgrade? Leica are like any other company operating in a relatively free market, they charge as much as they think they can get away with. That’s what capitalism is all about and I’m 100% for it, but there reaches a point (a £48 lens cap) when I start to resent it. That costs any company good will and too much of that alienates the fan base.

Your getting criticized not for bashing Leica but for not making sense.  

[IkarusJohn]

On 2/5/2019 at 5:23 AM, Stripey Badger said:

This makes no sense at all unless you intend to be a one lens Leica user. And if I was I would want the 50 Summilux. Why would I be tempted to buy that body when I have four silver lenses? And why would anyone buy a green lens if they have one of the two standard bodies? Plain stupid. Oh, and those four silver knobs and buttons to the front of the camera. They are hideous. They should be green too or otherwise toned down.
 
Leica are not at all focused, they are all over the place, just like Apple these days under Tim Cook. There may be some justification (but not much) for the odd tweak but it seems to my suspicious mind that Leica are simply greedy, always looking for another way to sting the loyal customer.  I am not interested in tweaks, I want real IMPROVEMENTS. A silent 8,000 shutter, a 36, better still 48 megapixel sensor, get some genius to figure out image stabilisation and autofocus built into the body. Hell, at the prices they charge and the glacial rate of progress that shouldn’t be impossible. When it happens I’ll buy that M11 or whatever but not until then. My 240 will easily outlast my lifetime.

So ... because Leica makes a green camera and a green lens, you should only use that lens?  I guess so, if how your camera looks is more important than actually taking photos.  I agree that these editions ARE about how the camera looks, but so what?  When I had my M60, I thought to myself that I should use it with the matched 35 Summilux lens (it was a beautiful lens, by the way - made from stainless steel).  Leica certainly recommended that I do that, but I'm not really that much of a 35mm focal length guy.  I guess the whole point of an interchangeable system is changing focal lengths - that and Leica's fantastic M primes.  You have used them, right?

Pricing?  Yeah, well you're right.  There is no excuse for much of what Leica prices.  But, when I'm carrying a $20,000 camera & lens, somehow being charged $95 for a brass lens cap with Leica stamped on it doesn't really bother me that much.

Would I prefer it if the camera was $4,000 instead of $8,000 and the lens $6,000 instead of $12,000?  Absolutely!  Lens cap?  Not so much.

As for Leica being focussed, I agree that the M(240) was "all over the place".  They have moved on from that to a far more coherent product line up.  If you hang around here a bit, you'll get the picture - APS-C cameras are committed to the L mount; SL took many years in the making and was a break through camera, with the SL2 around the corner somewhere; S system somewhat stalled (it has apparently sold more than expected, but I suspect cost is an issue); and the M?  Well, the M goes in steps - standard M developed, followed by P version (much to the irritation of many), M version (hopefully before too long), D version for odd people like me, and special editions.

The point is, all those M variants are based on the single breakthrough - M8, the first digital M; M9 the first full frame digital M; M(240) the first CMOS based M; and the M10, a return to the original M concept.  Each development takes considerable time - this isn't Sony, where they have huge digital options and sensors available, and yet seem unable to present a coherent product (in my view) - megapixel count is simply not important to Leica in its overall conception.

For your 1/8,000 silent shutter, 48MP, IBIS, in camera AF (seriously?  is anyone making this? Contax?) camera, I think you need to look elsewhere.  Leica isn't about that sort of break through that I'm aware of - they're about giving the best combination of available technologies, refined to a standard that other manufacturers can only dream about.

Not sure why I wrote such a long response ...

Edited February 10, 2019 by IkarusJohn

[Simon]

It looks fantastic with silver lenses.  I don’t know what the fuss is about.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[farnz]

On 2/5/2019 at 2:08 PM, Stripey Badger said:

Oh dear. I criticise Leica and it’s like I just swore in church. They did NOT think it through. The green Leica looks terrific, but only at its best with its dedicated lens. Otherwise TO SOME PEOPLE it looks plain wrong., like brown boots at a wedding. Of course Leica have been successful and influenced photography out of all proportion to their size but they do get things wrong sometimes. We all could think of a half dozen. Greedy? Look at the price of accessories that are part of another maker’s spec.Correction lens for £120 when, say, Nikon provided half a dozen values built into my old F5. A lens cap for £48? Just for the name 'Leica' when a plain one is literally pennies?

I don’t expect Leica to compete with the Sonys and Canons for 'gadgetry,' their product’s desirability does not depend on that, I pay through the nose for superb lenses and unsurpassed  build quality but in return I expect them to get the really important things right. Don’t give me video when I can get a Go Pro for the price of a couple of filters. OK, so they dropped that, but they got it wrong. Why wait four or five years for a sensor upgrade? Leica are like any other company operating in a relatively free market, they charge as much as they think they can get away with. That’s what capitalism is all about and I’m 100% for it, but there reaches a point (a £48 lens cap) when I start to resent it. That costs any company good will and too much of that alienates the fan base.

Criticising Leica on a Leica-centric forum is fine as long as you're not too emotive about it I think.

You say "they charge as much as they think they can get away with. That’s what capitalism is all about and I’m 100% for it, but there reaches a point (a £48 lens cap) when I start to resent it."  So you're actually not 100% for it then - only 95%.  It seems that what you actually want is a proprietary Leica lens cap with the Leica logo on it to replace one that you've presumably lost but you don't want to pay Leica's asking price.  

The price is the price and the market will determine that price in a capitalist economy so if the price of an item is too high then Leica won't sell enough of the item and will have to drop the price.  You don't have to buy Leica's lens cap because there are plenty of after-market lens caps available, albeit without the Leica logo, so perhaps it says more about you that you have to have the proprietary lens cap but don't want to pay the asking price.  If you can't, or don't want to afford, the cap then you can 'walk away' and acquire an after market cap that will do the same job but without the logo.  Your choice.

Pete.