Transitioning to a Rangefinder

[Flyer]

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Could do with some advise so stay with me please.

Having used DSLR's and mirrorless for the past 15 years I am comfortable with all the latest technology, this is mainly beneficial in my wildlife and BIF photography when theres a need to use focus tracking etc.  However having just retired I wanted to slow stuff down and be a bit more considered about my photography and start looking for different genres, textures, shadows, reflections street, etc etc. Hence my interest in Leica.

However I appreciate that other makes of cameras (Fuji film) etc can still provide this opportunity, however for once I wanted to own something that wasn't simply a box of electronics and a camera that gave me a feel good factor when using it.

As some of you know I received a used M10 yesterday that was very slightly damaged, so its being returned. However it did give me the opportunity to have a play with it for an hour or so.

I had mixed feelings about it and here's why;

Obviously a Rangefinder will take many weeks if not months to get to grips with it so please only take this as my personal first impressions having been used to focus tracking, face recognition etc etc.

Looking through the OVF it was a whole new world and one that appeared to step back in time, not that its a criticism it was just a very different experience.  The focus patch in the centre I found tricky to know if it was "critically" aligned when used with a 35mm lens on a subject say 15 feet away. I do use reading glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be but I would say its still pretty good but when I switch to the EVF and used focus peaking, it suggested my focus patch wasn't critically focused. So does using the focus patch get better in time or is it that I am likely to get frustrated and find a percentage of my photos are not critically sharp unless I use focus peaking. I have purchased a training video from Creative Live to help me get the most out of Leica cameras so I hope this will help.

Do most rangefinder shooters use zone focusing technique and when is it of more benefit than the patch?

I guess I am asking if you need to be a certain type of person (maybe from the film days or still use a film camera) to master and enjoy this process when the technology is here to help,  the SL for example?

I did start to think about the SL but surely just using M lenses with an adaptor is defeating the purpose of the tech within the body? I know you can use third party lenses but sticking a canon lens on a Leica doesn't feel right especially when you lose AF and Image stabilisation and the Leica zoom lenses are just too heavy and big.

Any advise on transitioning to a rangefinder and tips etc much appreciated.

Here is a link to my flikr page so you can see the type of photography I shoot.

Many Thanks

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/eazypix/

 

 

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[stephan54]

I switched from a D700 to an M10. Getting used to focussing with the rangefinder was relatively easy (even with a 50mm at 1.4). The M10 has a bright OVF so that helps. Correct calibration of the lenses and rangefinder is important.

Something I had to get used to is the gridlines. What you see in the OVF certainly is not what you get: 28 covers the OVF, but 90mm only the area defined by the gridlines.

Personally I do not use zone focussing. Never  regretted the switch and will not go back to DSLRs, but you have to be aware of the limitations like: no long lenses, macro not straightforward.

[evikne]

I also come from the DSLR world. I bought my first Leica in 2016 (a used M9) because I was curious. It was never meant to replace my DSLR system, and it was't actually love at first sight; after some weeks I put it out for sale again. But after some more weeks nobody had purchased it, so I removed the ad and gave it another try. Gradually and imperceptibly I fell more and more in love with this camera, and when the M10 was announced early in 2017, I pre-ordered it almost immediately (how I got the money is another story). The better ISO capability, slimmer body etc. made me want this as my only camera, and I started to sell all my DSLR equipment.

Now I have become a full-time Leica user, and I will never look back!

[pedaes]

Hope you get your camera soon but sounds like you may have reservations. 

To use your words it is a whole new world in many ways, but is a good one if you bear with the transition. Classic issue is you will not know if lens cap is on apart from strange exposure data. I would say perseverance is your friend, but it will not take the months you fear. Just play focusing rangefinder alignment, and try turning camera to focus on a straight edge.

Hyperfocal setting is fine for snapshot use or to max out depth of field for landscape type shots. All rangefinder lenses have a scale which is accurate, but for absolute safety you can work to one less f number (ie if you have lens set to say f8 set infinity mark to f5.6) . 

Focusing at  f1.4 will drive you crazy but that's 'normal'!

Relax and enjoy! Good luck!

[M11 for me]

I read your story with the damaged M10. Its a pitty.

Now to your points:

I still have my DSLR 5D Mk IV equipment incl. a bunch of prime and zoom lenses plus filters etc. etc. My reason for moving to M10 was the size plus weight of my pro equipment. I could not have that any more. So I came to Leica about 2 years ago.

As we might have a similar age you certainly remember the Voigtländers or other brands at that time. I had a Voigtländer with fixed 50mm. And when switching to Leica it was somehow like coming home. One thing I learned quickly. Have your focus ring ALWAYS on "infinity" and get used to turn that focus ring always in the same direction. Try not to delay when it has to go fast. Turn slowly and when you think that to image is sharp then release without delay. Your result will not always be sharp but it works quite well. I still have to do reportages in big halls etc. For this I use my Canon equipment: When people move and the light is not too good then FOR ME the Leica is not the tool. But normally (and this is 90% of my shots) I use Leica and I got so used to it that I could not be without. It has a small shape and is therefore so easy to carry around. Its not a burden. Its less the weight (that is reduced as well of course) but much more the shape and size that makes the difference for me. And the photographs are just beautiful. 

[albertknappmd]

The transition to a rangefinder is actually quite easy and straightforward. The trick is practice, practice, practice...

Also, the zone strategy is frequently used particularly in street photography...

However, there is a small group of photographers who can't seem to make the leap. Is it psychological or neurological? Who knows..

Good luck with your replaced M10.

Albert 😏

[Michael Hiles]

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I agree with Albert - practice, practice, practice. Play with the camera. Complaints mostly come from using the rangefinder. Play and practice - all will come out well.

The zone strategy can be useful when there is no time to compose and focus. But if you have the time to focus you should. There is only on plane of sharp focus - all else is an approximation. 

[Photon42]

Rangefinder focusing requires reasonable eyesight. To see / feel what is in focus really can take some time. The digital age helps a lot here. I would start trying to get poles in focus, then straight vertical lines in more complex frames, then crazy stuff, such as certain bush branches at close distance or keyboards from the side. Some subjects are really really easy to focus, and other are a nightmare. But you learn to live with it, if you genuinely enjoy the viewing experience and the joy using an M can give you.

Wide angle lenses can be focussed easier and quicker than with manually focussing SLRs, I find. With telephoto lenses, it gets tricky with large aperture and longer focal lengths.

 

[Tragg]

Hang in there. Using a rangefinder takes practise. Keep your camera with you and practise focusing whenever you get the chance. No need to press the shutter! I leave the focus on infinity as I find it easier and faster to adjust from distance to close up than the other way round. Again, practise, practise, practise! It gets easier the more you do it. 

[lucerne]

47 minutes ago, Photon42 said:

Rangefinder focusing requires reasonable eyesight. To see / feel what is in focus really can take some time. The digital age helps a lot here. I would start trying to get poles in focus, then straight vertical lines in more complex frames, then crazy stuff, such as certain bush branches at close distance or keyboards from the side. Some subjects are really really easy to focus, and other are a nightmare. But you learn to live with it, if you genuinely enjoy the viewing experience and the joy using an M can give you.

Wide angle lenses can be focussed easier and quicker than with manually focussing SLRs, I find. With telephoto lenses, it gets tricky with large aperture and longer focal lengths.

 

Don’t rule out the possibility that you will need to adjust the viewfinder to suit your vision.  Your previous camera probably had a diopter adjuster built into the viewfinder.  The Leica M10 does not have this, but does have a screw thread into which you can add the correct value according to your needs.   Read the instruction manual to understand the characteristics of the viewfinder.   It’s really important to be able to see the focus square clearly.  If you can’t see the square clearly, you’ll never focus the rangefinder.  Since it appears that you don’t live near a Leica dealer,  you may need to get the cooperation of a local optician.   Arrange to visit with the camera, and ask to experiment with different values .  Availability is   + and minus up to three diopters which are then available via Leica dealers.    This issue is discussed regularly on this forum.   Use the search facility on the forum to find advice.   Indeed most of what you need to know has already been answered.  

It might help us to help you if you were to reveal on your profile, where in the U.K you are located.  

[Flyer]

2 hours ago, lucerne said:

Don’t rule out the possibility that you will need to adjust the viewfinder to suit your vision.  Your previous camera probably had a diopter adjuster built into the viewfinder.  The Leica M10 does not have this, but does have a screw thread into which you can add the correct value according to your needs.   Read the instruction manual to understand the characteristics of the viewfinder.   It’s really important to be able to see the focus square clearly.  If you can’t see the square clearly, you’ll never focus the rangefinder.  Since it appears that you don’t live near a Leica dealer,  you may need to get the cooperation of a local optician.   Arrange to visit with the camera, and ask to experiment with different values .  Availability is   + and minus up to three diopters which are then available via Leica dealers.    This issue is discussed regularly on this forum.   Use the search facility on the forum to find advice.   Indeed most of what you need to know has already been answered.  

It might help us to help you if you were to reveal on your profile, where in the U.K you are located.  

Thanks for this, I use +2.5 reading glasses so as I understand it the OVF is set to - 05 so Iwouldneeda +3? 

 

I will update my profile 

 

Thanks again 

[Flyer]

Thanks  everyone for your suggestions etc. Looks like it just means practice practice and more practise. 

Some great help and it's much appreciated 

Flyer

[lucerne]

3 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Rangefinder focusing requires reasonable eyesight. To see / feel what is in focus really can take some time. The digital age helps a lot here. I would start trying to get poles in focus, then straight vertical lines in more complex frames, then crazy stuff, such as certain bush branches at close distance or keyboards from the side. Some subjects are really really easy to focus, and other are a nightmare. But you learn to live with it, if you genuinely enjoy the viewing experience and the joy using an M can give you.

Wide angle lenses can be focussed easier and quicker than with manually focussing SLRs, I find. With telephoto lenses, it gets tricky with large aperture and longer focal lengths.

 

Don’t rule out the possibility that you will need to adjust the viewfinder to suit your vision.  Your previous camera probably had a diopter adjuster built into the viewfinder.  The Leica M10 does not have this, but does have a screw thread into which you can add the correct value according to your needs.   Read the instruction manual to understand the characteristics of the viewfinder.   It’s really important to be able to see the focus square clearly.  If you can’t see the square clearly, you’ll never focus the rangefinder.  Since it appears that you don’t live near a Leica dealer,  you may need to get the cooperation of a local optician.   Arrange to visit with the camera, and ask to experiment with different values .  Availability is   + and minus up to three diopters which are then available via Leica dealers.    This issue is discussed regularly on this forum.   Use the search facility on the forum to find advice.   Indeed most of what you need to know has already been answered.  

It might help us to help you if you were to reveal on your profile, where in the U.K you are located.  

 

    

[lucerne]

Possibly +2. Let’s see what more experienced members suggest.

 

Edit.  I’m not sure that I’m correct.

Edited January 23, 2019 by lucerne

[jmahto]

18 minutes ago, Flyer said:

Thanks for this, I use +2.5 reading glasses so as I understand it the OVF is set to - 05 so Iwouldneeda +3? 

 

I will update my profile 

 

Thanks again 

Note that the VF patch is not at reading distance but much further. Whatever correction you use for reading may not directly translate to it. It is better to take couple of diopter and try out yourself (or take the camera to your friendly eye doctor and try out different corrections there).

[dau]

The apparent distance of the stuff in the OVF is 2 meters, hence the .5 diopter lens built into the OVF. If you can see clearly at a distance of 2m, you'll do nicely with the OVF as it is. 

As most others have said, try and borrow one for a few days or even hours. 

[jaapv]

-0.5 is for ideal vision. It is incorrect to compensate. The exact calculation can be made by a knowledgeable optometrist. It is better to use trial and error by try-out lenses (as mentioned above) or over-the-counter reading glasses. the RF patch is at a virtual 2 m (hence the -0.5) , you must be able to see that sharp, the background is, well, whatever it is up to infinity. Ideally your eye should be able to accommodate over that distance, but not seeing the background completely sharp is not as important.

[earleygallery]

Lining up two images in the rangefinder patch is about as simple as it gets. In difficult situations look for something in the plane of focus that's easier to line up, i.e. a straight edge or something contrasty.

As said perhaps you need to use a dioptre lens. Also it's possible that the rangefinder in the camera wasn't aligned correctly, a fairly common issue.

A rangefinder camera is totally different to an SLR or EVF and something that does take a bit of getting used to.

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[jaapv]

From the FAQ:

 

Quote

Question: I come from an autofocus camera background. What is the best way to get good focus on the M9?

 

The M works the same way as any rangefinder camera, the central patch in the viewfinder is your focusing tool.

It is important to look through the viewfinder in the optical axis. Looking into the camera skewed will result in inaccurate focus.

 

The first thing to do is to ascertain that you can see the rangefinder patch properly. A correct match between the rangefinder and your eye is even more important than it is using an SLR.

Leica sells corrective diopter lenses. Determining which one you need - if any- can be done by going to your optician and holding his try-out lenses between your eye and the viewfinder. The one that allows you to see the rangefinder patch and framelines sharply is the correct one. Order the nearest value from Leica. In a pinch you can use over-the-counter reading glasses for this test. If your eyes need special corrections, you can use your spectacles, provided you can see clearly at 2 metres distance ( the virtual distance of the rangefinder patch). Note that the background will be at background distance,so your eye should ideally be able to accomodate over the distance differential. However, there is some tolerance here.

 

For special cases there are viewfinder magnifiers. They can help, especially with longer and fast lenses and they can give confidence, but they can also be not very useful; they cannot correct errors in the focusing mechanism or your eye, in fact they magnify them.

Also, one loses contrast and brightness.

Leica offers a 1.25x one and a 1.4x. These need diopter correction like the camera, but often of a different value than the camera viewfinder.

 

There are also third-party magnifiers, sold by Japan Exposures, that include a variable diopter correction. 1.15x and 1.35x. For patent reasons they cannot be sold in the USA and Germany for use on a Leica camera, but they can be purchased for use on for instance a rifle scope.

Basically, for an experienced user, magnifiers are not needed and will only lower contrast and brightness, but many users do like and use them.

 

Once the viewfinder is corrected optimally, there are three methods of focusing, in ascending order of difficulty aka training.

 

1. The broken line method. Look for a vertical line in the image and bring it together in the rangefinder patch to be continuous.

 

2. The coincidence method. Look for a pattern in the image and bring it together to coincide. This may lead to errors with repeating patterns.

 

3. The contrast method. Once you have focus by method 1. or 2. a small adjustment will cause the rangefinder patch to "jump" into optimum contrast. At that point you have the most precise focussing adjustment.

 

Side remarks:

 

If you try focusing on a subject emitting polarized light like a reflection it may happen that the polarizing effect of the prism system in the rangefinder will blot out the contrast in the rangefinder patch, making focusing difficult. In that case rotate the camera 90 degrees to focus.

 

[jmahto]

9 hours ago, Flyer said:

Could do with some advise so stay with me please.

Having used DSLR's and mirrorless for the past 15 years I am comfortable with all the latest technology, this is mainly beneficial in my wildlife and BIF photography when theres a need to use focus tracking etc.  However having just retired I wanted to slow stuff down and be a bit more considered about my photography and start looking for different genres, textures, shadows, reflections street, etc etc. Hence my interest in Leica.

However I appreciate that other makes of cameras (Fuji film) etc can still provide this opportunity, however for once I wanted to own something that wasn't simply a box of electronics and a camera that gave me a feel good factor when using it.

As some of you know I received a used M10 yesterday that was very slightly damaged, so its being returned. However it did give me the opportunity to have a play with it for an hour or so.

I had mixed feelings about it and here's why;

Obviously a Rangefinder will take many weeks if not months to get to grips with it so please only take this as my personal first impressions having been used to focus tracking, face recognition etc etc.

Looking through the OVF it was a whole new world and one that appeared to step back in time, not that its a criticism it was just a very different experience.  The focus patch in the centre I found tricky to know if it was "critically" aligned when used with a 35mm lens on a subject say 15 feet away. I do use reading glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be but I would say its still pretty good but when I switch to the EVF and used focus peaking, it suggested my focus patch wasn't critically focused. So does using the focus patch get better in time or is it that I am likely to get frustrated and find a percentage of my photos are not critically sharp unless I use focus peaking. I have purchased a training video from Creative Live to help me get the most out of Leica cameras so I hope this will help.

Do most rangefinder shooters use zone focusing technique and when is it of more benefit than the patch?

I guess I am asking if you need to be a certain type of person (maybe from the film days or still use a film camera) to master and enjoy this process when the technology is here to help,  the SL for example?

I did start to think about the SL but surely just using M lenses with an adaptor is defeating the purpose of the tech within the body? I know you can use third party lenses but sticking a canon lens on a Leica doesn't feel right especially when you lose AF and Image stabilisation and the Leica zoom lenses are just too heavy and big.

Any advise on transitioning to a rangefinder and tips etc much appreciated.

Here is a link to my flikr page so you can see the type of photography I shoot.

Many Thanks

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/eazypix/

 

 

Welcome to Leica world. I just now read about your bad experienced with buying Leica. Hope it was returned without hassle and you get a different one. I saw your flickr page. Nice images. However note that Leica RF is not DSLR and it will not replace your long lens with AF experience of DSLR (your lovely birds and wildlife photos). It has its own strengths and weaknesses. Use it in its comfort zone and it will be rewarding.