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Where the M10 excels ...


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....forcing one to see the subject ("the thing itself") as it exists. It refuses to show you depth-of-field (or lack thereof), or pretty bokeh, or lens "perspective" or exposure preview - just the world at about a 32mm field of view, with a part of the world framed by a box. And if what you see within that box is not especially interesting in and of itself, it reminds you forcefully that to get a truly interesting photograph, you must do things to change what is within the box (the content)

You slightly mis-read my point (or perhaps I just wasn't clear). I wasn't talking about "better composition," I was talking about putting the box around more compelling subject matter. Composition is highly over-rated, as one can see from some of the most compelling Leica pictures made, which often have sloppy framing, crud in the corners, tilted horizons, half-people and other imperfections (including cr*p image quality). Nevertheless, with the test of time, they will still be in the photo

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the M’s sex appeal yet. It’s a well known secret that photographers who use an M date more.  

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On 1/21/2019 at 4:08 PM, DD8x10 said:

What I like about the M (and this is not specific to the M10), is the abstraction of using a rangefinder vs. a mirrorless or SLR type camera.  I like to visualize a picture, then use the rangefinder to focus and maybe adjust the framing of the image a bit.  I come from using view cameras, where you sort of have to set things up in your mind before setting the camera up for the picture.  Somehow, having everything in focus in the M rangefinder (vs. more out of focus with SLR) is helpful to me, even if I want to produce shallow focus.  For this reason, I also really like the Hasselblad SWC in film.  I also like the relatively small size and simplicity.

Also coming from 4x5 this resonates with me.  I do also have an Actus that I use with the M10 or Sony for architecture, where I have time, a tripod, and a desire for precision. 

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Going back to the original question, I think the most obvious answer is that the M10 is currently the best digital camera to use Leica M lenses on. In addition, all M cameras are good for photographing people for several reasons, including being unobtrusive. I actually once got a comment from a person who doesn't like being photographed that my M looked much less dangerous than my big DSLR.

I have been thinking about what Leica M pictures look particularly good and, for some reason, found that, in addition to people, pictures of different man-made objects (buildings, machines etc.) fall into this category. This may be more because of the Leica lenses used than the camera itself.

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On 1/21/2019 at 4:41 AM, evikne said:

 

Wow. This has been incredibly helpful. Your responses have reminded me of why people love the M--the camera puts as little as possible between you and the experience of creating an image; that, and the fact that it lets you use the best lenses in the world. Preferring an M to a more "advanced" camera is like preferring a hand-crafted chef's knife to a whizzy food processor, or a Steinway piano to a blinking, button-festooned keyboard. There is joy in using a tool that gets out of your way; that demands more of you not because it is mind-numbingly complex, but because it is simple; that is there to support your creative decisions rather than hijack them.

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Good tool and good skills needs to no laser beams and levels. Same for cameras. Any M is the tool which doesn't interfere between user and subject.  You just see through it and it doesn't bother you with settings. But anything with EVF and loads of menus does.

If OP like tools with bells and whistles here is zero reason to explain for him why M10. If you didn't get it with M6 and M8 here is nothing we could do for you, sorry.  M10, M6 and M8 are the same. 

 

As for composition and edges downplay from some M users here.  It takes time to practice. The moment and framing. This is why HCB are GW are great. One was training him self by drawing sketches, another by taking pictures in great quantities. 

Here is nothing you can't do with practice. No practice, then statements like "f#$k edges" comes. 

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb mujk:

I have been thinking about what Leica M pictures look particularly good and, for some reason, found that, in addition to people, pictures of different man-made objects (buildings, machines etc.) fall into this category.

Well stated. People and objects made by people is where the M10 excels.

vor 18 Stunden schrieb mujk:

This may be more because of the Leica lenses used than the camera itself.

I think it’s the combination of lenses and camera. 

vor 18 Stunden schrieb mujk:

I actually once got a comment from a person...that my M looked much less dangerous than my big DSLR.

While still maintaining its sex appeal, though.

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb Ko.Fe.:

As for composition and edges downplay from some M users here.  It takes time to practice. The moment and framing....Here is nothing you can't do with practice. No practice, then statements like "f#$k edges" comes. 

Yes, anyone who says “f#$k edges” is just too lazy to practice how to compose right. What a lame excuse. Was trying to justify his picture with half people in it, I think. 

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Here is my answer:

The M10 is uniquely good at ___taking photos!______

Like any camera, it can be used to create images. There are so many good camera brands that are capable of great image quality, but exceed the skills of many photographers. Investing in a seminar or workshop might result in better images than getting the latest camera gear that we lust for.

I bought into Leica about 18 months ago to check off a bucket list item. Now that I own 2 Leica M10 bodies and a number of Leica lenses, I really enjoy the image quality I'm getting with Leica, the quality of the hardware and the way the system works. I vacationed in New Zealand and Australia in November and only took my Leica kit. You can see the portfolios on my website, www.budjames.photography.

That said, I still own and use my Fuji X system. My current bodies are the XT3 and XH1. The Fuji XF primes and zooms are excellent. The Fuji zooms are smaller, light, less expensive and with better sharpness and overall image quality than the Canon "L" zooms that used when I shot Canon pro DSLRs. I'm keeping my Fuji gear primarily for the zoom lenses. Check out my China, Japan and Spain portfolios for images created with Fuji gear. 

We have so many fantastic choices these days. It's a good time to be a photography enthusiast.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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On 1/25/2019 at 10:25 PM, Telemetric said:

White balance affects the exposure too. Even if you can change the colour dominant when you process the raw, is better to have an accurate WB in the camera to have a similar exposure in all set of pics. I like to take pics, process a raw file is something we have to do but I am not crazy about it, so I always try to have a raw file as better as possible to spend the minimum time possible processing them. :)

Like se say here “every teacher has his own book” :)

I appreciate your post because, as most posts regarding "digital" cams, there is far more discourse on ISO & "resolution" than that of color rending/recording: White (Color) Balance.

Sure, a DNG file/"data dump" from the sensor _may_ provide latitude & longitude to tweak/adjust a data file (at best, with computer-application); however, there is a "third axis" on " in camera recording" through the sensor: the warmth/coolness (WB)... with film, vendors like Kodak, Agfa, Fuji, and Ilford calculated WB in their products... in digital, we now have similar control, somewhat... Not in the M10-D through FOTOS, regrettably.

Yet, as you correctly state, "WB affects the exposure,"  the M10 & M10-P (with screen) have access to "Manual WB" setting, M10-D with FOTOS (despite like camera firmware) does not, yet...  It would be preferred we have the capability in the M10-D to "write our _own_ book," as every image teaches us, image by image, page by page, our "book." ;)

in uniton,

Dave

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To me, the M10P excels in being the best available combination of portability, compactness and IQ. This makes it - to me -  the ideal always-with-me camera.

Small lenses, brillant quality and way less obtrusive than my Sony A9, which I only use for sports...

The M10 is able to work pretty well in low light, light enough to be carried all day and sexy enough that I WANT to carry and USE it all day. Hardly anybody feels molested when I take pictures with the M10.

Would not want to be without it!

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Am 27.1.2019 um 13:34 schrieb budjames:

Here is my answer:

The M10 is uniquely good at ___taking photos!______

+1. The thumb rest can be used to open beer bottles, too. 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Stereophonie:

Hardly anybody feels molested when I take pictures with the M10.

Unlike with the SL. People feel molested all the time. See the post in the link below by one SL user. He had posted this story on the SL board, too. Had he used an M, the parents probably would have asked for prints.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/something-happened-to-me-today-that-was-truly-vile-and-deeply-upsetting/

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Stereophonie:

The M10 is...sexy enough that I WANT to carry and USE it all day.

Some people feel the same way about their wives. We like to fondle what inspires us. 

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23 hours ago, DaveSee said:

I appreciate your post because, as most posts regarding "digital" cams, there is far more discourse on ISO & "resolution" than that of color rending/recording: White (Color) Balance.

Sure, a DNG file/"data dump" from the sensor _may_ provide latitude & longitude to tweak/adjust a data file (at best, with computer-application); however, there is a "third axis" on " in camera recording" through the sensor: the warmth/coolness (WB)... with film, vendors like Kodak, Agfa, Fuji, and Ilford calculated WB in their products... in digital, we now have similar control, somewhat... Not in the M10-D through FOTOS, regrettably.

Yet, as you correctly state, "WB affects the exposure,"  the M10 & M10-P (with screen) have access to "Manual WB" setting, M10-D with FOTOS (despite like camera firmware) does not, yet...  It would be preferred we have the capability in the M10-D to "write our _own_ book," as every image teaches us, image by image, page by page, our "book." ;)

in uniton,

Dave

I am always the “weird one” in our photoclub meetings because I am not worried at all about ISO, noise or resolution. In fact, I think that if your problem is the noise, you have a very big problem! 😅

But I also think every photographer has to surpass this part of the process by himself. Does not matter how many times another photographer will tell all these things to you... if you are not in that part of the process where you have begun to notice all that by yourself, you will keep thinking “what is he talking about? ISO and resolution makes my pics better!”  :)

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I have an M10-P and love it! I use it to take photos of family and friends. It is small and the lenses are the best, wonderful bokeh and clarity, the system is so light to carry even if you are taking 3 lenses with you as well as a body. I also take photos for charity and occasionally money - every time I use my Leica for these shoots, I regret it. I also have a Canon 5d Mk4 - so much more versatile as a camera system although the lenses are not as good and the lenses and camera are HUGE. Fast autofocus, superb flash integration with Profoto and Canon's own flash, good ergonomics, intuitive menus and design. The Canon will handle anything - the Leica is more specialised. For example, I always shoot weddings and parties with the Canon because of the zoom lenses and accurate flash integration. Until a couple of years ago, Leica TTL was almost unusable, now after a firmware upgrade it is so-so.  I would compare the Canon to a Ford Galaxy people carrier - zero style but will handle anything. I have no emotion about my Canon which I regard in the same way as my refrigerator or washing machine but I love my three Leica's (M10-P, M6 and M3) and will probably never sell the film bodies. They are technically worse but so satisfying to use and the "hit rate" of creating great images is higher. If you nail a shot with the M3 with no exposure meter, no autofocus, you know you did it, nobody else. Some of my favourite shots are with the M3 which has a fabulous 50mm Summicron Dual Range dating from 1960, still sharper than most Nikon and Canon lenses today and way better in all respects than the 50mm F1.4 on my Nikon F3 film camera.

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On 1/20/2019 at 11:03 AM, Chaemono said:

I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the M’s sex appeal yet. It’s a well known secret that photographers who use an M date more.  

I should have bought a Leica before I got married. :)

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

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vor 19 Minuten schrieb budjames:

I should have bought a Leica before I got married. :)

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

I’m sure you have no reasons to complain. 

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I think the best analogy for me is that the M10 is like an acoustic guitar. It’s difficult to hide behind the complete lack of technology unlike an electric guitar which requires amplification, often effect pedals (ie like say the bells and whistles of a Sony). It makes you work a little harder for the shot but at the same time the lack of features is a blessing. 

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.....To focus better and faster....

 

I have my M 10 for a week now and I realize, that is is the best rangefinder I have known. I used M6,7,MP, TTL, 8,9,240 , but this one is really fast in focussing. The hit rate is more than twice as high in my view. M240 and M 10are tested recently and appeared to be  calibrated both almost perfect, so it could not be, that the hit rate is higher because it's a just out of factory model.

It gives me the opportunity to make photos I never made before, look at the bicyclist three hits in a few seconds The aperture was 2,0 ( Lightroom gives 2,8/4,0 but nobody can switch so fast its its aperture during these shots: https://pauljoostenfotograaf.smugmug.com/Architecture/LUF-Rotterdam-2019/n-4Gt2bR/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Paulus
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On 3/24/2019 at 6:01 AM, Telemetric said:

I am always the “weird one” in our photoclub meetings because I am not worried at all about ISO, noise or resolution. In fact, I think that if your problem is the noise, you have a very big problem! 😅

But I also think every photographer has to surpass this part of the process by himself. Does not matter how many times another photographer will tell all these things to you... if you are not in that part of the process where you have begun to notice all that by yourself, you will keep thinking “what is he talking about? ISO and resolution makes my pics better!”  :)

Heh!  Even if well resolved from ISO "noise," as said, with digital, we do, or should have, in-camera manual adjustment setting WB.  If you mean that "part of the process" to say "I set ISO, aperture  & shutter speed... frame & capture," then I again agree with your "weird" perspective... although these are not "weird," but fundamental photog skills, non?

The M10 variants excel in the return to earlier film bodies as regards _ haptics_... in hand (the right, not left), one feels where the film/sensor plane is, and the lens is so aligned... am often teased about my capturing images without bringing the camera to my (right) eye... zone focus: the "original 'Auto Focus.'"... freedom!  (Of course: not exclusive of M cameras & M-mount lenses!)

On 3/28/2019 at 4:11 AM, Malvolio said:

I think the best analogy for me is that the M10 is like an acoustic guitar. It’s difficult to hide behind the complete lack of technology unlike an electric guitar which requires amplification, often effect pedals (ie like say the bells and whistles of a Sony). It makes you work a little harder for the shot but at the same time the lack of features is a blessing. 

An apt analogy; however, Yamaha, Martin, Taylor, etc. acoustic guitars each have a "sonic color,"  regardless string type/brand... BUT, I get your point: fewer "features," or fewer influences on the process is what M cameras & M-mount lenses, um, afford the photog.... that, IMHO, is the feature I stick with the M "system."  Oh, and the M-mount lenses, whether Leica, Zeiss & Cosina, now on the M10 returns their designed computations to intended use.... no crop factor, as with my M8... Hooray!  (Although I still use the M8, & its "Ka-Pow" shutter ;)

 

in uniton,

Dave

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