Almost impulse-bought a T

[Boojay]

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19 minutes ago, plasticman said:

A great deal - but don't really understand where a private person gets 15 Leica TL and Summicron 23 kits from? And sells them on eBay at this price? Must admit I'd be concerned - but then I'm over-cautious (which means I'd miss a bargain like this).

I know exactly what you mean, and I am pretty careful myself, meaning I like a bargain, but not at someone else's expense.   All I can say is so far so good, I will register both lens and body with Leica and see what happens.  Firmware was at 2.1 - I have just incrementally updated to 2.4.    I may have just sorted out my Son's birthday present, after I've had a play (he can find his own lens)!  Oh, and body and lens not packed as a kit - but separately.

 

 

 

 

[plasticman]

Not sure if anyone is interested in some very brief and provisional first impressions, but I unpacked the camera last night, and after the kids were in bed I gave it a quick run-through with a v4 Summicron 35 on the Novoflex adapter.

Very first impressions last night:
• yes it really is a beautiful object
• disappointment that focus-zoom isn't available without Leica's own adapter (was hoping that users who reported this had missed something).
• in very low light, the camera struggles, and not only color but even detail seems to disappear - making focus very difficult
• I really enjoy the interface, although it's gonna take a little while to get used to what options are available in specific contexts. For the first half hour I was hunting around a lot. But it's the best menu system on a digital camera I've ever experienced, and I'm looking forward to working out which items I need to put into my personalized menu for fast access.
• confused as to why exposure with manual lenses and dark conditions was so different to the screen preview. The only way to get around this seemed to be setting the camera to total manual.
• I like the silicone strap (apparently everyone hates it?)
• the lens has a tiny amount of lateral play on the Novoflex - probably less than a mm, but the lens can twist just a touch back and forth (ie: only rotationally - so not significant for focus)

All in all, when I went to bed I was mildly disappointed - although that's my default mode for digital cameras, in general.

This morning I fitted the dual-focus Summicron 50 on the camera, and tried it with some more daylight available. Now all of a sudden the camera started to really shine.
• dual focus lens works great on the T: just need to press on the lock mechanism to enable the close focus
• the lovely low-contrast quality of the lens is perfect. Also the unique rendering of the OOF areas really comes through
• much easier to focus than the 35
• color and detail remain intact with more light

Suddenly I no longer felt I might need to buy an autofocus lens, after all.

Left for work feeling very pleased with the camera.

 

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[sshamim]

On 1/28/2019 at 3:17 AM, Boojay said:

Not an impulse buy for me at all, but an added extra with the purchase of a TL 23mm.  A visit to eBay looking for a lightly used one turned up a new boxed TL and 23mm for less than the list price of the lens only (around £300 less in fact).  Now, I have never handled a T (or even seen one for real), really don't need one, actually thought there must be something wrong with the deal (if it looks too good to be true - it usually is), but package arrived this morning, absolutely as described.  I did have huge doubts, decided eBay and PayPal buyer protection was enough to take the risk, seller has very low feedback score with nine of the sets to sell.  I ordered and paid on Thursday afternoon and within an hour had had a message from him to say he would be sending out same day.   Netherlands to UK.

Now waiting for the battery to charge and then check the firmware, lens updated itself when attached to my CL.  Only telling the tale on here incase anyone else is looking for either the lens or a very very cheap TL. 

 

 

I think I got mine from the same seller, since it was shipped from Netherlands as well. His eBay ID starts with "P". There was nothing wrong with the item and it was brand new.

Having that said, I don't think I want to keep this camera. It's really slow (even with all the firmware items) and while the build quality is excellent, hands-on and shooting experience hasn't been good for me. I need something smaller with better handling. I'll receive my Ricoh GR2 today and see if that's the right camera for me.   

Also, being forced to take DNG+JPEG to get DNGs, was really a dick move by Leica. And not having Camera Matching Profiles for Leica T/TL/TL2 on Lightroom is disappointing. I don't shoot in JPEG as it limits the already relatively limited dynamic range of the sensor. Default JPEG colors look undersaturated to me and increasing Saturation by one step, makes things over-saturated. Maybe I'm not used to Leica look yet, or maybe the real Leica Look comes from M body and lenses.

Regards

Edited January 29, 2019 by sshamim

[plasticman]

13 hours ago, sshamim said:

I don't think I want to keep this camera. It's really slow (even with all the firmware items) and while the build quality is excellent, hands-on and shooting experience hasn't been good for me. I need something smaller with better handling. I'll receive my Ricoh GR2 today and see if that's the right camera for me.   

Also, being forced to take DNG+JPEG to get DNGs, was really a dick move by Leica. And not having Camera Matching Profiles for Leica T/TL/TL2 on Lightroom is disappointing. I don't shoot in JPEG as it limits the already relatively limited dynamic range of the sensor. Default JPEG colors look undersaturated to me and increasing Saturation by one step, makes things over-saturated. Maybe I'm not used to Leica look yet, or maybe the real Leica Look comes from M body and lenses.

"dick move" seems a bit strong - the size of the jpg can be set to a bare miminimum, and I imagine the idea was the jpegs are there to support preview functions in the external app (haven't tried it yet).

As for the color - shooting DNG makes this a pretty moot point? I've only taken a couple dozen test shots so far, but opening them in Iridient Digital I'm pretty pleased with how they look. The sharpness is almost unnerving, and obviously the color is very pliable. 

Anyways, if nothing else, I'm so unbelievably impressed again by the Summicron-M 50mm Dual Focus. The lens renders knife-sharp wide open - and transitions to gentle OOF less than a centimeter either side.

Certainly shooting with an old manual lens makes the process slow and a bit thoughtful, but if speed and automation is a priority I'm guessing this isn't the right camera. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by plasticman
clarify which lens

[nicci78]

I only use the T with TL 18mm which fast AF ensures good usability. And even better T digital scale permits use of TL 18mm in hyperfocal, which is faster than any AF  

and with APO-TL 60mm for macro tripod works. Thanks to digital distance scale, it makes the 60mm macro easier to set up  

For low light I am using the great pop up flash  

That’s how I like this camera as a good fellow for my CL  

CL are leaps and bounds better for M lenses and for the other TL lenses and for no flash or silent photography. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by nicci78

[lct]

How long are aftershot blackouts with M lenses?

[plasticman]

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38 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

CL are leaps and bounds better for M lenses and for the other TL lenses and for no flash or silent photography. 

I'm pretty pleased with what I'm getting from my M lenses, to be honest. I think everyone has different shooting styles, and for me the T seems like a good enough vehicle for my shooting style.

Since getting a new OM4Ti I've been almost exclusively shooting my Olympus lenses, so the T gives me a chance to revive my interest in the M equipment I have on my shelves. Looking forward to seeing how the Noctilux looks with this setup.

37 minutes ago, lct said:

How long are aftershot blackouts with M lenses?

lct - I haven't timed the blackout (I can try to do it tonight), but the preview is up for a second or so after each shot. I just don't think quickfire is the highest priority when using a T with manual M-lenses. But that's how I'm using the camera.

Edited January 30, 2019 by plasticman
tone

[lct]

Thank you Mani (is it still you?). Yes one second sounds pretty consistent with what i've heard. Is it the same when auto-review is disabled?

[ropo54]

54 minutes ago, plasticman said:

I'm pretty pleased with what I'm getting from my M lenses, to be honest. I think everyone has different shooting styles, and for me the T seems like a good enough vehicle for my shooting style.

Since getting a new OM4Ti I've been almost exclusively shooting my Olympus lenses, so the T gives me a chance to revive my interest in the M equipment I have on my shelves. Looking forward to seeing how the Noctilux looks with this setup.

lct - I haven't timed the blackout (I can try to do it tonight), but the preview is up for a second or so after each shot. I just don't think quickfire is the highest priority when using a T with manual M-lenses. But that's how I'm using the camera.

T w 35 1.4 FLE (top) and T w Noctilux 0.95 (bottom 2 photos)

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Edited January 30, 2019 by ropo54

[nicci78]

There is a weird bug with auto-preview. 

So I just stop fighting the T. I just embrace its defaults as qualities. And it will work nicely. 

With the T what you see is not necessarily what you get. Especially with a flash. Therefore I just left 1 sec auto-review ON. No blackout problem anymore. With the benefit of checking exposure.

Hopefully there is no visible shutter lag with the rear screen. And startup time is as fast as possible.  So no shooting problem. 

Visoflex is a trouble maker (blackout, slow switching, slow refresh rate) with the T. So do not use it. T has a big screen. Just shoot like a tourist. 

Silicon strap is sticky. So I remove the lugs. And use it bare. 

AF is slow with all TL lenses, except with TL 18mm. They are made for each other. Very jacket pocketable together. 

 

To sum up. I will not use the T as the sole camera. But as a sidekick, it is really useful. 

[plasticman]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Thank you Mani (is it still you?). Yes one second sounds pretty consistent with what i've heard. Is it the same when auto-review is disabled?

It's still me! At this stage I haven't even tried with auto-review disabled - I'm still at the stage when I want to see what the camera just did whenever I press the shutter.

In any case, I'm obviously a poor authority on this camera - I should underline that 99% of what I shoot now is on film, using medium format cameras and the Olympus camera and lenses for 35mm. For a long while I've been casually trying different digital cameras (high risk having both of Stockholm's biggest camera stores within a couple hundred meters of my office) - so I've tried all the Fujifilm, Olympus, Sony systems high and low, to use for the 1% of photographs a parent needs to take, where neither film nor phone quite works out. Nothing has appealed.

I like the T. It feels surprisingly good in the hand. I love the solidity. The simplicity. I love the menu system. I'm sure other cameras have better 'IQ'. But it's good enough for me - at the price they sell right now.

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by plasticman

[plasticman]

Been playing briefly with some files in both Iridient Developer and Lightroom. All I can say is, use Iridient Developer!!!

The amount of detail and color nuance that ID pulls out of the files compared to Lightroom or PhotoShop's raw developer is amazing. Anyway, this is probably a hornet's nest - I'll leave it up to each and everyone to decide for themselves - but I really prefer what Iridient Developer does.

[wda]

What platform?  Windows or Mac?

[sshamim]

11 hours ago, plasticman said:

"dick move" seems a bit strong - the size of the jpg can be set to a bare miminimum, and I imagine the idea was the jpegs are there to support preview functions in the external app (haven't tried it yet).

As for the color - shooting DNG makes this a pretty moot point? I've only taken a couple dozen test shots so far, but opening them in Iridient Digital I'm pretty pleased with how they look. The sharpness is almost unnerving, and obviously the color is very pliable. 

Anyways, if nothing else, I'm so unbelievably impressed again by the Summicron-M 50mm Dual Focus. The lens renders knife-sharp wide open - and transitions to gentle OOF less than a centimeter either side.

Certainly shooting with an old manual lens makes the process slow and a bit thoughtful, but if speed and automation is a priority I'm guessing this isn't the right camera. 

Well, seems the higher end Leica cameras don't force you to take JPEG with DNGs. I feel they did this to remind you that you "only" have an "entry level" Leica.

Speaking of DNGs, they don't look pleasant to me with Lightroom and Adobe profiles. I had never heard of Iridient Digital. Would love to give it a try. So thanks for suggesting   

Do you (or anyone here) have experience with Capture One and Leica DNGs? 

Edited January 30, 2019 by sshamim

[plasticman]

1 hour ago, wda said:

What platform?  Windows or Mac?

Sorry David - think I’ve made this mistake before - it’s MacOS only. 

[wda]

That is a pity. Although a search refers to IR being available as a plug-in for Lightroom. That presumably refers to Lightroom running on a Mac.

[plasticman]

1 hour ago, sshamim said:

Well, seems the higher end Leica cameras don't force you to take JPEG with DNGs. I feel they did this to remind you that you "only" have an "entry level" Leica.

I really wouldn’t take it personally like this. As I said above, I think it’s more likely that the jpg thing is because they developed an app with WiFi connection to the camera, and then realized a single DNG transfer would take half an hour...

 

[hoppyman]

10 hours ago, sshamim said:

Well, seems the higher end Leica cameras don't force you to take JPEG with DNGs. I feel they did this to remind you that you "only" have an "entry level" Leica.

Speaking of DNGs, they don't look pleasant to me with Lightroom and Adobe profiles. I had never heard of Iridient Digital. Would love to give it a try. So thanks for suggesting   

Do you (or anyone here) have experience with Capture One and Leica DNGs? 

I cant speak about other Raw processing programs, but with Lightroom you can of course just choose to import only the DNG versions and dump the JPEGs right away.
What do you find unpleasant about the DNG files? What are you shooting? I just have used the Adobe standard profile for everything for years. I usually apply some preset values on import ( curve, sharpening etc) I just shot a few thousand frames with the T on trips mainly. For me I saw some fairly consistent higher than I like exposure straight from camera. I don't know why that was. I personally thought it was less convenient to carry and use with the Visoflex.  Actually not better than my M to carry with that fitted.The CL solves that of course. There is a huge difference in price between what you can get a T or TL for in comparison to a CL. I still think its a very neat and elegant little camera, just aimed at a different market sector than an M for example. I do know that some people like to use it as a low cost M option of course.

[nicci78]

11 hours ago, sshamim said:

Well, seems the higher end Leica cameras don't force you to take JPEG with DNGs. I feel they did this to remind you that you "only" have an "entry level" Leica.

Speaking of DNGs, they don't look pleasant to me with Lightroom and Adobe profiles. I had never heard of Iridient Digital. Would love to give it a try. So thanks for suggesting   

I just think that the camera will may be even slower, it you force the camera to dig inside DNG file to get a preview image. Faster for the CPU to just read the small jpeg. That is may be way Leica has to keep DNG+JPG. Or the bigger screen requires a bigger preview image than the tiny one inside DNG ? 

 

I prefer embedded profile instead of Adobe standard profile for all Leica camera : M (262) - M10 - CL - T - Q    Standard profile is a little bit dull in comparison. 

For jpeg just choose Vibrant in T film choice menu. The colours are amazing this way. 

I stop fighting DNG + JPG. At 16MP, files are small enough to not bother. And it is an advantage for really fast download of jpegs through Fotos App. And you can ditch the jpg in Lightroom, just importing DNG.

 

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[nicci78]

Today internal memory of my T saves me. I forgot my SD card, left on the back of my iMac 😓 (stupid Apple design to hide everything behind 😡 )

hopefully 16GB internal is more than enough for this morning 😊

Every camera should have such security net. 

 

For your information, battery life is awesome. fully charged last Sunday. Still 65% left despite being used everyday for one or two hours per day. With a dozen of WiFi transfers. And flash if necessary. Love it. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by nicci78