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How sturdy / robust is the M240 compared to the M9?


Me Leica!

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Fairly self explanatory title, but I should elaborate.

I've been looking at the Red Dot Camera website, and their prices for used M240s are very much more competitive than they are in this part of the world (Japan; I've seen used M9s here at way more than Red Dot charges for used M240s). I've actually sent them an email to ask about shipping fees, etc, because even with the shipping and customs factored in, it may well work out cheaper. I was half considering an M-E I found over here which was easily the lowest priced M9 (variant) that I've found in Japan, with a replaced sensor, and even compared to that the M240s from Red Dot are priced lower.

 Here's the thing. Assuming they send it by air, even with good packing (which I'm sure they'll do) it might get bumped around. And if it falls into the hands of a DDP (disreputable delivery person :-) ) then that's a drag too.

I remember reading about the M9 in this regard, and the impression I took away is that if you were unlucky you could knock the RF out of alignment by sneezing near the camera (hyperbole used for effect). I have similarly read reports which imply that the M240 is improved in this regard, but to what extent is not entirely clear.

I would appreciate hearing from people who have experience with these two cameras and appreciate all advice.

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The  sneeze would have to be pretty impressive to knock a rangefinder out of alignement (not a big deal, easily corrected locally if not in DIY), but the M240 has been improved in this respect. The only (minimal) hazard of transport by air might be a hot pixel line.

 

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3 minutes ago, IamTheDistance said:

Wow, its true! the M240 is much more expensive in Japan (MapCamera prices) than Red Dot Camera. However, the newer M10 is a little bit cheaper in Japan (MapCamera again). Why is the M240 holding it value in Japan?😅

Map Camera is many things, but cheap ain't one of them! I pop in there quite regularly and the average price of an M9 with a replaced sensor there is around 400,000 yen, sometimes quite a bit over that. That's around 2900 UK pounds - and Red Dot have M240s (with slight cosmetic issues, and I don't care about those as long as the main functions are OK) for as low as 2150. They answered my email (very quickly) and quoted me 110 quid for shipping, so even with that plus whatever import fees are applicable, I'd be getting an M240 for significantly less than a Map Camera M9. 

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20 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The  sneeze would have to be pretty impressive to knock a rangefinder out of alignement (not a big deal, easily corrected locally if not in DIY), but the M240 has been improved in this respect. The only (minimal) hazard of transport by air might be a hot pixel line.

 

Ah, yes. I've heard about these hot pixel lines caused by cosmic radiation or whatever. I had the impression that CCDs were more susceptible to this than CMOS sensors. If such a thing happens, does that involve the legendary x-month round trip to Leica HQ, or is there a DIY / easy fix for it?

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I have both an M9 and M-P. I cannot find any difference in built quality, both are extremely well made. The hot cosmic pixel is likely science-fiction; I have flown overseas a number of times and never had an issue. Choosing between the two cameras is just a matter of budget and added features in newer models. Both will produce excellent files. 

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9 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

I have both an M9 and M-P. I cannot find any difference in built quality, both are extremely well made. The hot cosmic pixel is likely science-fiction; I have flown overseas a number of times and never had an issue. Choosing between the two cameras is just a matter of budget and added features in newer models. Both will produce excellent files. 

I do not believe it’s science fiction at all. It has happened to me. Before flight no hot pixel, after flight yes. It is also mentioned in leica’s manual. I wonder if wrapping in alu foil might reduce the chance of getting hot pixels?

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3 hours ago, Me Leica! said:

Map Camera is many things, but cheap ain't one of them! I pop in there quite regularly and the average price of an M9 with a replaced sensor there is around 400,000 yen, sometimes quite a bit over that. That's around 2900 UK pounds - and Red Dot have M240s (with slight cosmetic issues, and I don't care about those as long as the main functions are OK) for as low as 2150. They answered my email (very quickly) and quoted me 110 quid for shipping, so even with that plus whatever import fees are applicable, I'd be getting an M240 for significantly less than a Map Camera M9. 

I buy and sell all my gear at Red Dot - Great folks to deal with.

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I upgraded from M9 to M240, but robustness of the rangefinder wasn't one of the reasons.  My M9 came from the factory with a severely misaligned rangefinder, but after I fixed it, never went out of alignment again.  In fact I never had a Leica rangefinder go out of kilter on me.  Then again I've never dropped one, or bumped it hard.  To me the M240 is worth the price of admission for the absence of the loud and obtrusive sound of the shutter re-arming after released, the provision for EVF (extreme closeups, and not needing to fiddle with multiple accessory finders when using more than one UW lens), and the much-longer battery life. 

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5 hours ago, poli said:

I do not believe it’s science fiction at all. It has happened to me. Before flight no hot pixel, after flight yes. It is also mentioned in leica’s manual. I wonder if wrapping in alu foil might reduce the chance of getting hot pixels?

Hi,

I know that the issue is mentioned in the manual, and there have been a few mentions of it over the years in this forum, so it must be real. I however suspect that any hot pixel cases may be more due to the security machines at the airport than that of cosmic rays while in flight. Wrapping your camera in tin foil will be useless, the camera is already surrounded by an aluminium tube: the fuselage. On way to prevent any rays from reaching the sensor would be to use a lead-lined pouch, like the ones I used to carry my films in those days, and have the equipment hand-checked. So far, I have not needed that precaution.

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5 hours ago, poli said:

I do not believe it’s science fiction at all. It has happened to me. Before flight no hot pixel, after flight yes. It is also mentioned in leica’s manual. I wonder if wrapping in alu foil might reduce the chance of getting hot pixels?

Foil? No. Cosmic rays pass through everything, and some pass through the Earth as if it were not there.

 

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Don't be paranoid, they are all out to get us.!

Or, for British TV viewers, "Don't panic, Captain Mainwairing, don't panic!"

Take sea journeys rather than air travel. Wear a tin foil hat. Never get on an aeroplane with a digital camera.

Lastly, I have never heard such piffle in my life.

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11 hours ago, Peter Kilmister said:

Don't be paranoid, they are all out to get us.!

Or, for British TV viewers, "Don't panic, Captain Mainwairing, don't panic!"

Take sea journeys rather than air travel. Wear a tin foil hat. Never get on an aeroplane with a digital camera.

Lastly, I have never heard such piffle in my life.

I'm quoting this just to approve of the quote and the use of the word "piffle".

Stupid boy!

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15 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

Hi,

I know that the issue is mentioned in the manual, and there have been a few mentions of it over the years in this forum, so it must be real. I however suspect that any hot pixel cases may be more due to the security machines at the airport than that of cosmic rays while in flight. Wrapping your camera in tin foil will be useless, the camera is already surrounded by an aluminium tube: the fuselage. On way to prevent any rays from reaching the sensor would be to use a lead-lined pouch, like the ones I used to carry my films in those days, and have the equipment hand-checked. So far, I have not needed that precaution.

The X-rays used in security are far too soft to cause damage (to electronics) The cosmic ray damage is real, there a many scientific studies on the subject. I have been told that Sony tends to ship sensors and cameras by sea freight for this reason FWIIW.

 

https://www.harvestimaging.com/pubdocs/130_2009_IISW_cosmicrays.pdf

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15 hours ago, pico said:

Foil? No. Cosmic rays pass through everything, and some pass through the Earth as if it were not there.

 

Yes.  I realised after typing my foil idea that it was kind of silly. 😂 

i’d better never take a plane again! 

Edited by poli
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