Starting with M-A?

[M9reno]

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29 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

I can’t understand why anyone would buy an M-A only to stick that horrible CV light meter in the hot shoe.  It’s an ugly and expensive carbuncle that’s limited to reflective metering and ruins the form factor of the M-A.

If you don’t know how to use a metering app on a Smartphone, carry a Sekonic Twinmate in your pocket and you’ll have the option of reflective or incident metering..

Otherwise, that’s a nice pair!

The angle of acceptance on the CV lightmeter is so wide that the readings are often hard to interpret.  If you manage to find an old but still accurate MR4, which at least measures roughly the area contained in the 90mm frames of the viewfinder, that seems a much better choice.

[Frase]

I can understand buying a clip on meter for a older meterless M but does seem a bit strange buying an MA to then attach a meter on it.

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[Guest]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Ouroboros:

I can’t understand why anyone would buy an M-A only to stick that horrible CV light meter in the hot shoe.  It’s an ugly and expensive carbuncle that’s limited to reflective metering and ruins the form factor of the M-A.

If you don’t know how to use a metering app on a Smartphone, carry a Sekonic Twinmate in your pocket and you’ll have the option of reflective or incident metering..

Otherwise, that’s a nice pair!

Aren‘t the wrist straps attached to the tripod thread too much stress on the pin right next to it, which holds the base plate? It‘s a great idea to have the wrist-strap on the right but not in the way of the the right hand, as they generally are when attached from the strap lug, but to let the camera hang from your wrist without holding it, that looks risky with this set-up.

[Ko.Fe.]

43 minutes ago, tri said:

Aren‘t the wrist straps attached to the tripod thread too much stress on the pin right next to it, which holds the base plate? It‘s a great idea to have the wrist-strap on the right but not in the way of the the right hand, as they generally are when attached from the strap lug, but to let the camera hang from your wrist without holding it, that looks risky with this set-up.

 

If person could afford those cameras, he could afford parts. But in real world I have seen cameras with wrist strap hold in the hand, not hanging out via strap. Wrist strap is only safety harnes most of the time.

 

5 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I can’t understand why anyone would buy an M-A only to stick that horrible CV light meter in the hot shoe.  It’s an ugly and expensive carbuncle that’s limited to reflective metering and ruins the form factor of the M-A.

If you don’t know how to use a metering app on a Smartphone, carry a Sekonic Twinmate in your pocket and you’ll have the option of reflective or incident metering..

Otherwise, that’s a nice pair!

Ugh?

I have iPhone lightmeter and Twinmate. If I ever put light meter on camera it is going to be CV lightmeter II. 

Do you have direct, your own experience with it? I know at least one photog who is using it and exposures are spot on.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ko.Fe.

[Ouroboros]

7 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

 

If person could afford those cameras, he could afford parts. But in real world I have seen cameras with wrist strap hold in the hand, not hanging out via strap. Wrist strap is only safety harnes most of the time.

 

Ugh?

I have iPhone lightmeter and Twinmate. If I ever put light meter on camera it is going to be CV lightmeter II. 

Do you have direct, your own experience with it? I know at least one photog who is using it and exposures are spot on.

I have no doubt you think it is a wonderful lightmeter, but my comments are not concerned with that.  I'll leave you to it.

[Ko.Fe.]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I have no doubt you think it is a wonderful lightmeter, but my comments are not concerned with that.  I'll leave you to it.

So, no real experience, just blaf from you. I'll leave you in it.

[M.RB]

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I have an MA and a Voigtlander meter. It’s not my only light meter but if i am using it i tend to use it separately from the camera. My friends call it my ‘mini camera’ as they think it might be some kind of subminiature spy camera. 

I might take it out of my pocket, meter, then put it away and just use the M-A.

It’s convenient to get a baseline reading amd then easy to adjust. No ‘deep thought’ needed. Just compose, maybe focus 😉 then ‘pop’ a little picture is made. 

I use the M-A differently from a metered camera, just like this ‘hipster’ listens to vinyl differently to a CD.

I don’t have the distraction of LED lights showing me things I don’t need to see. I just know for example 1/125, f/5.6 is good for the shade here, just like i know Side A of Hunky Dory will play to Quicksand, then I can flip it and listen to Side B perhaps or maybe I’ll listen to Quicksand again, and I ain’t got the power anymore.

I don’t tend to use an M2 as much because it’s a 60 year old camera and sometimes that gives me problems. 

Isn’t it great they make M-A’s? I think it is. I have no idea what the (Typ 127) is all about but i love the jet black body and modern viewfinder and mechanism and it just works for me.

I do also have an MP,  to have two films on the go but I’d give up the MP in a heartbeat if i had to choose. I don’t choose film because it is easy. 

[earleygallery]

On 1/13/2019 at 1:42 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

 

If person could afford those cameras, he could afford parts. But in real world I have seen cameras with wrist strap hold in the hand, not hanging out via strap. Wrist strap is only safety harnes most of the time.

 

Ugh?

I have iPhone lightmeter and Twinmate. If I ever put light meter on camera it is going to be CV lightmeter II. 

Do you have direct, your own experience with it? I know at least one photog who is using it and exposures are spot on.

I think the point being made is why buy an MA and stick a Voigtlander meter (or any meter) on it when you can buy an MP with the built in meter instead and have a smaller camera as a result.

It's more sensible IMHO to buy a small handheld meter that takes incident as well as reflected light readings, which is surely better than a less sophisticated version of the meter available in an MP?

 

 

[mole73]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb M.RB:

I have an MA and a Voigtlander meter. It’s not my only light meter but if i am using it i tend to use it separately from the camera. My friends call it my ‘mini camera’ as they think it might be some kind of subminiature spy camera. 

I might take it out of my pocket, meter, then put it away and just use the M-A.

It’s convenient to get a baseline reading amd then easy to adjust. No ‘deep thought’ needed. Just compose, maybe focus 😉 then ‘pop’ a little picture is made. 

I use the M-A differently from a metered camera, just like this ‘hipster’ listens to vinyl differently to a CD.

I don’t have the distraction of LED lights showing me things I don’t need to see. I just know for example 1/125, f/5.6 is good for the shade here, just like i know Side A of Hunky Dory will play to Quicksand, then I can flip it and listen to Side B perhaps or maybe I’ll listen to Quicksand again, and I ain’t got the power anymore.

I don’t tend to use an M2 as much because it’s a 60 year old camera and sometimes that gives me problems. 

Isn’t it great they make M-A’s? I think it is. I have no idea what the (Typ 127) is all about but i love the jet black body and modern viewfinder and mechanism and it just works for me.

I do also have an MP,  to have two films on the go but I’d give up the MP in a heartbeat if i had to choose. I don’t choose film because it is easy. 

Hi M.RB.,

if the M-A fits your needs then it‘s fine. It‘s for sure a great camera, a son/daughter of the well known MP.

But you said „I don’t have the distraction of LED lights showing me things I don’t need to see.„

Don‘t forget that before you look through your „uncluttered“ viewfinder of the M-A you had to handle your external lightmeter. For this need you had to put your camera aside, right?

And here starts the metered M to shine: no need to handle anything besides your camera, just look through the viewfinder, react on the symbols of the internal lightmeter and fire. 

Conclusion: for me and many other M-users the integration of the internal lightmeter (first in the larger M5, later in the M6) in the M body is one if not THE biggest milestone in development of the M.

Some weeks ago i spoke to a salesman of the biggest german leica dealer. He told me that interest in the M-A is very low, but the little renaissance in analogue photography helps specifically the MP to rise sales in the analogue family.

The customers know why... 😉

Robert

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by mole73

[ianman]

16 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

So, no real experience, just blaf from you.

I have no idea what blaf is, but having seen and admired some of his photos I'd say that experience is something Ouroboros has in abundance.

Edited January 14, 2019 by ianman

[Ko.Fe.]

6 hours ago, ianman said:

I have no idea what blaf is, but having seen and admired some of his photos I'd say that experience is something Ouroboros has in abundance.

I can't recall, care of any. Won't see them now anyway.

6 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I think the point being made is why buy an MA and stick a Voigtlander meter (or any meter) on it when you can buy an MP with the built in meter instead and have a smaller camera as a result.

It's more sensible IMHO to buy a small handheld meter that takes incident as well as reflected light readings, which is surely better than a less sophisticated version of the meter available in an MP?

 

 

Why to buy MP if M-A is less expensive and more robust, less dependant due to absence of electronics? 

Point one.

Point two. Viogtlander lightmeter works. 

Point three. I use Twinmate or inPhone lightmeter app if I'm not confident.

At some point  it starts to get too complicated. And something tiny as Voigtlander Lightmeter in the hot shoe is good and removable solution.

Last point. It is nothing but bluff. I'm sure same person is slapping external viewfinders on his M. And it doesn't looks ugly for him.

But tiny meter does. 

[pico]

21 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Why to buy MP if M-A is less expensive and more robust, less dependant due to absence of electronics? 

Why buy an MP-A when a low-mileage M4 with a CLA is half the cost?

 

[frakaphoto]

i had nearly all M, Digital and film....but finish with the m4-p....best buy for buck....then I was there....incidence light of course...you mesure only one time.....the light around , not your subject wich is complitely absurd method !

So I bought an M-A,  black.  love my M4 but after buying M8, M9, M240, Md it was time to have a brand new film M.the black M is unique...the chrome is so deep...the leather so nicely done.

this is the best ever leica and i had an MP...hate this red stupid triangle you have to follow to get a red ball like a dokg instead of concentrating on composing and moment.

( i do only black and white so who care about 2 f)

inside? 1/30 and f2.5 that’s it.

if you do color buy an M7, the only precise M with speed....

So if you can find a black m-a new...grab it asap....this is the a monument.

of course M2/M4 will do the job but nothing as good as the first time....

[TG14]

On 1/11/2019 at 5:19 PM, PaulJohn said:

I had the MP and now the M-A. I don't need a meter because most of the film I shoot has plenty of latitude. If in doubt you can over expose and over develop and have lots of room to play with. Obviously slide film is not so forgiving. 

What do you mean by "plenty of latitude"? Does that mean high iso?

Apologies if this is common knowledge. I am not a film user but interested.

[M9reno]

6 hours ago, TG14 said:

What do you mean by "plenty of latitude"? Does that mean high iso?

Apologies if this is common knowledge. I am not a film user but interested.

He means that negative film, especially black and white, is able to record a wider range of tones.  That means that even if you expose wrongly, the negative preserves information that can be saved either at development or printing stage. Slide film is the exception, behaving more like a digital sensor - tones falling outside of a middle range become hard or impossible to see and are not there to recover.

[colint544]

I run a fair bit of film through my 1966 Leica M2. There's very little difference between an M2 and an M-A. I've had my M2 for six years, and it was my first unmetered M camera. With the first few rolls of film, I was anxious about how accurate I'd been with the exposure. I used the free light meter app on my iPhone.

But everything was fine, and I trust myself much more these days, and rarely either worry, or use the app much any more. You get used to guessing, and it's quite rewarding to make a nice wet print, hold it in your hand, and know that you really did create that piece of work, from start to finish. If in doubt, overexpose a little. Unless you're shooting slow transparency film, lack of a light meter is a virtual non-issue. Also, much more relaxing to not be chasing red LED lights around in the viewfinder.

Advantages of the M-A over the M2:

* The M-A is brand new

* Fast loading system

* Bright viewfinder

* Automatically re-setting shot counter

* Hot shoe

* Raised protective collar around lens release button 

 

Advantages of the M2 over the M-A:

* Recessed windows, less likely to get fingerprints on them

* Real, grippy vulcanite

* 100% reliable take-up spool (bit slower but some, including me, prefer it)

* Proper Leica script engraved on the black version

* Available in black paint

* Options on whether you want a self-timer or not, or a button rewind, which some prefer

* The simplest and most elegant frame-lines of any Leica M

* Depth of field notches built in to the rangefinder patch

* Smooth all-brass transport mechanism

* Compatibility with old-school metal IX00 film containers (near frictionless film transport, less chance of tram-lines on negatives, but pretty niche really)

* The M2 is considerably cheaper than the M-A, even factoring in a CLA

 

Best wishes, and good luck with whatever you end up going for.

https://www.instagram.com/colintempleton/

Edited January 16, 2019 by colint544

[plaidshirts]

13 hours ago, TG14 said:

What do you mean by "plenty of latitude"? Does that mean high iso?

Apologies if this is common knowledge. I am not a film user but interested.

This article explains it pretty well. Depending on the type of film used you have up to 7 stops, mostly on the overexposure side, to work with.

https://petapixel.com/2016/03/29/exposure-affects-film-photos/

[sblitz]

I have the MA and M4 ... I don't consider the M3/2 comparable because of the older, slower film loading method. M4 is my favorite, although it does not have 75mm framelines (love my 75mm summicron) and, more important, the viewfinder is darker than the MA. So new is sometimes better, M4 feels better made, but the MA has been flawless. As for metering, well I prefer incident light metering, so not having the meter in or on camera is a no go for me. When I get someplace I take a few readings, in sun, in shadow, in deep shadow, keep that in my head and start shooting. That's just me and it works. There are times that I think about swapping my MA for an MP, but then it passes.

 

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, sblitz said:

I have the MA and M4 ... I don't consider the M3/2 comparable because of the older, slower film loading method. M4 is my favorite, although it does not have 75mm framelines (love my 75mm summicron) and, more important, the viewfinder is darker than the MA. So new is sometimes better, M4 feels better made, but the MA has been flawless. As for metering, well I prefer incident light metering, so not having the meter in or on camera is a no go for me. When I get someplace I take a few readings, in sun, in shadow, in deep shadow, keep that in my head and start shooting. That's just me and it works. There are times that I think about swapping my MA for an MP, but then it passes.

 

This echoes my situation almost exactly.  I bought an M-A initially then bought an M4 as a 'backup'.  I also have a 75mm lens (Summarit 2.4) that I use sometimes and have had thoughts about having the M4 modified to include the 75mm frame line, but thus far have held off. 

I don't really feel a big quality difference between the M-A and M4 - if anything I think that the film advance feels smoother on the M-A and the M4 is fresh off a CLA.  My M4 finder appears to be as bright as my M-A finder which is very bright.  I was concerned it would be darker but that doesn't appear to be the case.  I also use incident metering exclusively so have no real need/desire for an in-camera meter. 

The only reason an MP sometimes crosses my mind is because of the black paint option.  But I don't need another Leica (or so I keep telling myself  )

Edited January 17, 2019 by logan2z

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[sblitz]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

This echoes my situation almost exactly.  I bought an M-A initially then bought an M4 as a 'backup'.  I also have a 75mm lens (Summarit 2.4) that I use sometimes and have had thoughts about having the M4 modified to include the 75mm frame line, but thus far have held off. 

I don't really feel a big quality difference between the M-A and M4 - if anything I think that the film advance feels smoother on the M-A and the M4 is fresh off a CLA.  My M4 finder appears to be as bright as my M-A finder which is very bright.  I was concerned it would be darker but that doesn't appear to be the case.  I also use incident metering exclusively so have no real need/desire for an in-camera meter. 

The only reason an MP sometimes crosses my mind is because of the black paint option.  But I don't need another Leica (or so I keep telling myself  )

Perhaps you got a better M4 viewfinder wise. The focus mechanism in the MA is improved, it is the one in the M10, etc., that Leica was touting.

As for the number of film Leicas, I always think two is more than enough. Gives me the latitude to have different films in each. If you are pro, however, that's a different story.