They Say Future M Might Be Able To Switch Between RF and EVF

[lct]

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5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But they do have "rangefinder" styling

My haircut has the same with holes everywhere 

[Ouroboros]

50 minutes ago, lct said:

Fuji never made digital rangefinders nor hybrids composed of rangefinders AFAIK.

My comment was in reply to the concept of switching from conventional rangefinder to EVF, which is, and has been, entirely possible since Fujifilm introduced their 'hybrid' viewfinder/evf cameras a number of years ago.  I did not mention conventional rangefinders, you simply assumed that.

Whilst neither the X-Pro or X100 series have ever had conventional mechanical rangefinders,  the concept is viable and not exactly 'magical new technology'.  The point is, Leica have an opportunity here to create something genuinely revolutionary with the evolution of M series.

I doubt your crystal ball is any less clouded than anyone else's.

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[lct]

3 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

My comment was in reply to the concept of switching from conventional rangefinder to EVF, which is, and has been, entirely possible since Fujifilm introduced their 'hybrid' viewfinder/evf cameras a number of years ago.  I did not mention conventional rangefinders, you simply assumed that.
Whilst neither the X-Pro or X100 series have ever had conventional mechanical rangefinders,  the concept is viable and not exactly 'magical new technology'.  The point is, Leica have an opportunity here to create something genuinely revolutionary with the evolution of M series.
I doubt your crystal ball is any less clouded than anyone else's.

I am from a generation to whom a rangefinder was a rangefinder, i.e. the opposite of a TTL camera, which can explain why the notion of an "unconventional" rangefinder may surprise me a bit but i don't need my hazy crystal ball to confirm that Leica does not want this unconventional thing so far. Neither do i BTW but i did like my little Fuji X-E2 which must be a sort of rangefinder in this modern vocabulary, more exactly a rangefinder sans rangefinder and sans unconventional rangefinder either but looking somewhat like a rangefinder without the windows of a rangefinder if i understand well :D. Just kidding.

[Peter Zapp]

The M10-V.

I wonder whether there is enough demand to justify a serious production run and that is not already covered by mirrorless bodies, from third parties and from Leica.

The M10-V abandons one of its unique selling points, the rangefinder. It retains the body shape, the brass, the user interface, the brand. Remember, for the Leica R the user interface, the brass and the brand were not enough to survive.

I would have preferred a (cheaper) M10-V over my M10, but I would not downgrade at a financial loss or buy an M10-V as second body.

[Dirk Mandeville]

If Leica were to produce an M11 with two models — one with a conventional rangefinder, and one with solely a high end evf, it would be interesting to see how the sales volume of each compares to the other. A lot of die-hard long-time M users would go for the rangefinder model. Younger, newer shooters may prefer the evf model. And perhaps some old timers whose vision requires the evf for accurate focusing, particularly with longer focal lengths and fast lenses wide open. I know I use the evf more often than the rangefinder on my M10, and my ability to nail focus with certain lenses (I.e, 85mm Summarex, 7artisans 50 f/1.1) has dramatically improved. I would buy an evf only M11.  I’m not wedded to a particular technology out of any sense of nostalgia. I’ll buy the tool that allows me to produce the best results with my preferred lenses and shooting style. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Dirk Mandeville

[cp995]

People buy a Leica M10 mainly  because of the RF.
If they need EVF for some reasons (lenses below 28mm or above 75/90mm) they can use the Visoflex 020.

If EVF is the main destination they can buy the SL today or other L-Mount Bodies in the future.
Even a Nikon Z is a nice and small option for M-Lenses!

So for me there is absolutely no reason to build a Leica M with EVF.
Leica is not stupid and changes their great "Das Wesentliche" strategy.

[cp995]

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Dirk Mandeville:

If Leica were to produce an M11 with two models — one with a conventional rangefinder, and one with solely a high end evf.

In this case it would be easier for Leica to build a SLx in a rangefinder style body with M-adapter.
 

Edited January 15, 2019 by cp995

[Dirk Mandeville]

11 minutes ago, cp995 said:

People buy a Leica M10 mainly  because of the RF.

I disagree with this statement. Thirty years ago, maybe. But not as much today. People buy Leica M10 for lots of other reasons. The size factor, Leica’s reputation for quality, and others, but most importantly, the large selection of amazing lenses and particularly the number of vintage lenses available in that mount. I own an M9 and an M10. One of the reasons I upgraded to the M10 was the availability of the Visoflex viewfinder. I didn’t buy the M240 because I wasn’t happy with the evf that was available for it. I love shooting the M10 with a variety of lenses, both vintage and modern. But I generally prefer focusing with the evf (though it’s clunky and poorly designed for this camera) over the rangefinder. I rarely miss focus with the evf. I do miss often enough with the rangefinder to mar the experience. And then there’s the problem of calibrating various lenses to the particular camera. Honestly, I love just about everything about the M10, but the rangefinder mechanism isn’t the biggest draw for me. I would buy the M11 with integrated evf in a heartbeat. I am but one customer, and my needs and preferences are based only on my own personal experiences and development as a photographer, but I can’t imagine I’m alone in this. Like I said, it would be interesting to see the sales numbers if they put out one of each. 

[cirke]

45 minutes ago, cp995 said:

People buy a Leica M10 mainly  because of the RF.

No not all ! for the size ,the simplicity , the lenses, and esthetic ... but never for an outdated RF
And we want a M with EVF with M mount or nothing

Edited January 15, 2019 by siangue

[jdlaing]

Well you can’t have that. First and foremost M is a rangefinder camera. 

[calijax]

 

1 hour ago, siangue said:

No not all ! for the size ,the simplicity , the lenses, and esthetic ... but never for an outdated RF
And we want a M with EVF with M mount or nothing

Winner.

[cirke]

38 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Well you can’t have that. First and foremost M is a rangefinder camera. 

who cares ? 

[Dirk Mandeville]

1 hour ago, jdlaing said:

Well you can’t have that. First and foremost M is a rangefinder camera. 

This is a myopic view based on past history and ignoring technological development. Cameras evolve, and so will the M. Your statement could be equated to someone saying “you can’t have a digital M. First and foremost, the M is a film camera” back before 2006. Yet, look where we are today. 

And how can you say “you can’t have that” when Stefan Daniel specifically stated that they are looking at opportunities to produce an alternate version evf-only M camera?  He’s pretty clearly implying that we can have that. But certainly they will keep a rangefinder only M in the product line for as long as it makes economic sense to do so  

Personally, I think I would be happy with an updated digital/electronic rangefinder system vs. the outdated mechanical system we have today. Lots of potential advantages to that, if Leica could manage to implement it. But I honestly think the future will  see a shift to evf or hybrid viewfinder. 

[jdlaing]

29 minutes ago, Dirk Mandeville said:

This is a myopic view based on past history and ignoring technological development. Cameras evolve, and so will the M. Your statement could be equated to someone saying “you can’t have a digital M. First and foremost, the M is a film camera” back before 2006. Yet, look where we are today. 

And how can you say “you can’t have that” when Stefan Daniel specifically stated that they are looking at opportunities to produce an alternate version evf-only M camera?  He’s pretty clearly implying that we can have that. But certainly they will keep a rangefinder only M in the product line for as long as it makes economic sense to do so  

Personally, I think I would be happy with an updated digital/electronic rangefinder system vs. the outdated mechanical system we have today. Lots of potential advantages to that, if Leica could manage to implement it. But I honestly think the future will  see a shift to evf or hybrid viewfinder. 

Probably not anytime soon. There is no room in the camera to cram in an EVF in combination with a rangefinder mechanism. 

[cirke]

3 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Probably not anytime soon. There is no room in the camera to cram in an EVF in combination with a rangefinder mechanism. 

As soon as possible because I do not see Leica go very far with a dinosaur that Cartier-Bresson would never use today

[jdlaing]

1 minute ago, siangue said:

As soon as possible because I do not see Leica go very far with a dinosaur that Cartier-Bresson would never use today

Several hundred thousand customers would disagree. 

They can go as far as the owner would like to go.

[jdlaing]

And..........

We can’t know what Breslin would use today because, quite frankly, he’s deader than a pile of rocks.

[cirke]

9 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

And..........

We can’t know what Breslin would use today because, quite frankly, he’s deader than a pile of rocks.

Breslin ? isn't she an actress with huge boobs ?  very alive for sure 🙂

Edited January 15, 2019 by siangue

[cirke]

5 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Several hundred thousand customers would disagree. 

They can go as far as the owner would like to go.

Because they have no choice  (i used to be one of them),   but you will see by your own if a good M with  EVF comes

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Hallo,

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[lct]

3 hours ago, Dirk Mandeville said:

If Leica were to produce an M11 with two models — one with a conventional rangefinder, and one with solely a high end evf, it would be interesting to see how the sales volume of each compares to the other. A lot of die-hard long-time M users would go for the rangefinder model. Younger, newer shooters may prefer the evf model.

And some oldies or newbies may prefer having both instead of buying Sony or Nikon cameras to complement their rangefinder. I know one of them at least . The big Leica SL won't be a solution for M users preferring compact cameras anyway.