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Jonathan Hanson

Shutter count on used CL?

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Hello; I'm just about to jump into CL ownership and I'm looking at a mint example in an ad that specifies "no shutter count." Is this something that's normally available, and should I be worried that it's not?

Thanks for any advice!

 

 

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2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Not available on the newer Leica models.

When did this change? I have a CL registered in February of this year and it has a shutter count.

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How did you read it out?

At any rate, shutter count would be the least of my worries. For instance, a camera that has been heavily used for video might have a low shutter count, one which has been used extensively on electronic shutter might have a high shutter count but very little mechanical wear. I would be far more concerned with the marks of use, they might give a decent indication of the state of wear of a camera.

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3 hours ago, jaapv said:

How did you read it out?

At any rate, shutter count would be the least of my worries. For instance, a camera that has been heavily used for video might have a low shutter count, one which has been used extensively on electronic shutter might have a high shutter count but very little mechanical wear. I would be far more concerned with the marks of use, they might give a decent indication of the state of wear of a camera.

Top right hand corner of the screen e.g. L1000462 - technically exposures captured but close enough to be the same thing as shutter count, surely? Assumes you have not reset the exposure count.

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1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

Top right hand corner of the screen e.g. L1000462 - technically exposures captured but close enough to be the same thing as shutter count, surely? Assumes you have not reset the exposure count.

Firmware updates often reset the exposure count, and the camera does some "interesting" counting tricks of its own as well. This isn't a particularly reliable way of knowing how many exposures you've made, over time. 

When someone asks how many exposures one of my cameras has made, I check how many I have in Lightroom for that camera. That's usually within 10% of the total I made with the camera. 

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A low shutter count means that the shutter has not been used much whatever the reason may be. Something i would like to have information about if i were after a second hand body.

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4 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Top right hand corner of the screen e.g. L1000462 - technically exposures captured but close enough to be the same thing as shutter count, surely? Assumes you have not reset the exposure count.

Mine doesn't say anything like that - ;) - it as I reset the numbering. That only gives the number of exposures since the user assigned the first number of the present series. It is easy enough To reset the numbering. A shutter count is the number of times a shutter has been operated since new. On earlier cameras it could be found in EXIF or the service was menu.. in newer ones it is hidden.

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Shutter count can give you an idea of how much use a camera has had, but the problem with relying on that as a deciding factor on whether to buy a used camera or not, is that shutters don't fail at a set limit. The manufacturers give a guide to shutter life but many fail much earlier and many last much much longer.

Buy used from a dealer who offers at least a 6 month warranty.

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Quite often a shutter will fail -if it fails, quite rarely- for a mechanical reason, like a grain of sand between the blades - which isn't determined by shutter count, obviously.

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It is, but I think a high-shuttercount camera would show clear signs of use as well, and not be "mint". (except on e-bay, of course :D:lol: )

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12 hours ago, Jonathan Hanson said:

Hello; I'm just about to jump into CL ownership and I'm looking at a mint example in an ad that specifies "no shutter count." Is this something that's normally available, and should I be worried that it's not?

Thanks for any advice!

 

 

'no shutter count' is being economical with the truth ..... the shutter will have been triggered probably several hundred times in the assembly and testing process.

To be honest I'd prefer to buy a used camera that has at least been tried and confirmed as fully functional..... 'mint' as far as I'm concerned is a cosmetic categorisation.

The M9 was the last Leica where 'shutter count' could be read by the user. 

In all the subsequent models there is a 'unique image identifier' in the EXIF info which behaves in a rather impenetrable manner. Certainly on the M240 there is a service screen accessible via some secret key combination that does decode this into a 'number of actuations' and I would expect the TL, CL and SL to be similar.

As others have mentioned above, it is largely academic until you get into the hundreds of thousands.

If it's a good price and still under warranty you have nothing to lose. 

 

Edited by thighslapper

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5 hours ago, thighslapper said:

'no shutter count' is being economical with the truth ..... the shutter will have been triggered probably several hundred times in the assembly and testing process.

 

I read this to mean the seller can't confirm the shutter count, not that it's never been used.

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With professional Canon DSLRs the shutter is built for 150‘000 actuations (some pro models it is built for even 300‘000). This is some of the officially published specs. As a replacement of that part (or rather parts) is expensive, a camera is most often considered without any residual value when shutter count comes near that figure. Therefore that information is essential when selling a used Canon camera.

On the other hand that figure of 150‘000 is so enormously high that for a private user it can hardly be reached. 

Here we talk about a CL. Certainly not a pro body. 

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As LocalHero intimated, shutter life is rarely much of a concern. In 50+ years of photography with a bazillion different cameras of all kinds, I have not yet seen a single shutter worn out on any new or used camera I've bought and used. I've seen shutters jammed from dirt, broken by foolish users sticking their fingers where they don't belong, and full of dirt, needing cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment, but never worn out. Signs of abuse leading to these problems are much more prevalent than actual wear from thousands of exposures. 

I've never worried about it and would recommend looking carefully at the body for other signs of abuse and damage. In all likelihood, the previous owner of the CL just didn't like it much and decided to replace it with another camera. 

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2 hours ago, ramarren said:

As LocalHero intimated, shutter life is rarely much of a concern. In 50+ years of photography with a bazillion different cameras of all kinds, I have not yet seen a single shutter worn out on any new or used camera I've bought and used. I've seen shutters jammed from dirt, broken by foolish users sticking their fingers where they don't belong, and full of dirt, needing cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment, but never worn out. Signs of abuse leading to these problems are much more prevalent than actual wear from thousands of exposures. 

I've never worried about it and would recommend looking carefully at the body for other signs of abuse and damage. In all likelihood, the previous owner of the CL just didn't like it much and decided to replace it with another camera. 

Thanks Ramarren. I've never worried about shutter count either; it was only the fact it was mentioned at all that made me wonder.

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