Do you assume a certain level of knowledge of a Leica shooter?

[Me Leica!]

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Bit of a long-winded title, but the gist is this : if you see someone wielding a Leica - particularly a new, expensive one - in a way which demonstrates that they clearly have no idea what they're doing with it , does it bother you? A little, a lot, not at all?

Couple of examples might help. I was in one of the most famous camera shops in Japan (where I live), Map Camera in Shinjuku. Definitely worth a visit if you happen to be in Tokyo, by the way. 

The basement floor is for Leicas, Hasselblads, medium format, etc. A month or so ago I was browsing there and there was a guy testing out a Leica. I couldn't see precisely which one, but I'm certain it was a digital M, just from the shape. So, however you cut it, not a cheap camera - and Map Camera is not known for generous pricing; if anything it's the opposite. He was holding it up to his eye and looking all Bresson-ish, when the following conversation took place between him and the shop assistant.

Man carrying considerably expensive camera and lens combination : "What is this figure in red here?"

Shop staff, extremely politely : "That is the shutter speed, Sir".

My conclusion : man with enough cash to buy a modern digital M plus lens doesn't recognize shutter speed when he sees it.

Secondly - a few days ago - I was out shooting the remains of the superb autumn foliage we get here. There was another person doing the same thing. Again, I couldn't tell for sure but at a glance it looked very much like another digital M in his hands. The guy was shooting it by holding it out in front of him, arms locked out with the strap around his neck, and contorting his body to look through the rear screen (meaning that it couldn't have been an M8 or M9 / monochrom(e?), so an M240 or newer).

Now it could of course have been the case that his rangefinder was out and he had to use the rear screen, but the way he was leaning back, tilting his head and basically doing an olympic gymnastics routine to get the framing where he wanted it, suggested otherwise. I've seen quite a lot of this around here : you don't see that many digital Ms in the wild, but when you do I'd estimate that at least half the users shoot as if they were carrying something like a Sony RX-1.

I'm all for people shooting whatever they want, but I have to admit to a bit of eye-rolling at the above two examples; they strike me as giving credence to the notion, held by some, that some Leica users have far more money than sense / photographic talent.

Does this sort of thing bother you at all? Or are you all zen about it?

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Not every person who walks into camera store is knowing about cameras. Many walks in to see something they never seen.

Another common case is then person walks in to buy something this persons knows and needs, but checking on something new.

Burlington camera store run by people who are in this business for decades. One day I was here and store manager and me looked at some very rare camera like two newbees. And we both knew a lot.

 

Person using rear screen on his Leica, might be long time film Leica shooter, but now his vision is gone and the only way to enjoy his Leica glass is by using of the screen. 

 

My my assumptions are as true as yours. Does it bother your zine?

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[erl]

Give some credence and cut some slack to anyone who wants to learn. I remember the first time I ventured towards Leica. I turned it over in my hands, put it to my eye, said "Hmm, could I try the VF with a different lens!" You see, I was used to SLR cameras. I have since learned from having an inquiring mind and now own more Leicas than I am prepared to 'fess up to.

Of course, I am no better a photographer for owning that many, but Leica has changed my shooting style, I believe for the better.

Another observation I have made about Leica shooters is, the most unlikely looking one will probably turn in a better image than oneself.

[Me Leica!]

5 minutes ago, erl said:

Give some credence and cut some slack to anyone who wants to learn. I remember the first time I ventured towards Leica. I turned it over in my hands, put it to my eye, said "Hmm, could I try the VF with a different lens!" You see, I was used to SLR cameras. I have since learned from having an inquiring mind and now own more Leicas than I am prepared to 'fess up to.

Of course, I am no better a photographer for owning that many, but Leica has changed my shooting style, I believe for the better.

Another observation I have made about Leica shooters is, the most unlikely looking one will probably turn in a better image than oneself.

　As I said, I'm all for people using whatever they want. It's no skin off my nose. But to spend big bucks before you even know what shutter speed is seems kind of strange. It's almost like putting down a deposit on a Lamborghini before you've even passed your driving test.

 

[Me Leica!]

11 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Not every person who walks into camera store is knowing about cameras. Many walks in to see something they never seen.

Another common case is then person walks in to buy something this persons knows and needs, but checking on something new.

Burlington camera store run by people who are in this business for decades. One day I was here and store manager and me looked at some very rare camera like two newbees. And we both knew a lot.

 

Person using rear screen on his Leica, might be long time film Leica shooter, but now his vision is gone and the only way to enjoy his Leica glass is by using of the screen. 

 

My my assumptions are as true as yours. Does it bother your zine?

No, your points are absolutely valid. That's why I asked if it bothers people, rather than stating outright that it's wrong. This is, after all, a place for discussion.

[ramarren]

I remember Map Camera, I think, from the last time I was in Shinjuku ... That was about 2002, I hope it's the same store. It was a great store!

As to the potential for people owning a Leica, or any other piece of high end kit be it camera, motorcycle, car, phone, having no idea whatever what they have in their hands: Yeah, it happens. Some are truly motivated folks who have to figure it out. Others are truly clueless folks who bought something because their friends were going to be impressed by it. Others still are people who thought they knew something and are too embarrassed to admit that they don't. Et cetera. 

I try not to spend much energy on such concerns. Sometimes I try to help someone who seems like they want to learn, if I happen to know what the issue that they're confounded by is. I'm always amazed by how many times such good intent is taken wrongly. Best in most cases to smile and ignore. 

It reminds me of this classic cartoon: https://goo.gl/images/n3MMFF

[frame-it]

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was just there last week..saw a guy playing with the fuji GFX50R and looked clueless....maybe he has never used a fuji before but has read or watched about it and was curious

who knows?

who cares?

 

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[stevieg]

This is the other classic video out there on the 'net.

 

Easily done tho'

I'm guilty as charged for forgetting the lens cap somtimes!

[Gobert]

In general you may assume a certain level of knowledge with Leica photographers. Starters on the market usually buy a DSLR or a bridgecamera, which are less pricely. Nevertheless the confirmation is in the exemption. 

 

And being clueless with unknown cams’s, I think we Leica users are really blessed by our simple menu structure. 

The menu structure of my wife’s Fuji X10 or our waterproof Coolpix can be very confusing if you want to overrule the standard settings.

 

[ianman]

Not at all.

We were all beginners at some point.

[ianman]

3 hours ago, Me Leica! said:

But to spend big bucks before you even know what shutter speed is seems kind of strange.

Why do you assume that the buyer doesn't know what shutter speed is?? He may have 50 years of experience behind him shooting without aperture priority or a built-in meter and would never have seen the speed show up in the viewfinder. It's quite possible he is not the newbie.

Edited December 27, 2018 by ianman

[Me Leica!]

56 minutes ago, stevieg said:

This is the other classic video out there on the 'net.

 

Easily done tho'

I'm guilty as charged for forgetting the lens cap somtimes!

Haha , that's classic. That and the Eric Clapton one.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

If I see another photographer - Leica wielding or otherwise - I know I'm in the wrong place.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Me Leica!]

1 minute ago, ianman said:

Why do you assume that the buyer doesn't know what shutter speed is?? He may have had 50 years of experience behind him shooting without aperture priority or an built-in meter and would never have seen the speed show up in the viewfinder. It's quite possible he is not the newbie.

He wasn't close to 50. But he was certainly very well dressed.

[LocalHero1953]

It's certainly true that there are some excellent smartphone photographers out there who have no real need to be knowledgeable about the technicalities of photo production. They pay attention to the subject matter, timing and composition and leave shutter speed and ISO to the smartphone. Sure, they might become better photographers by an awareness of these nerdy bits, but when I look at the shots taken in my extended family by those using smartphones, I am often put to shame by their ability to produce striking shots (i.e. shots I want to look at again). Compare that with the technically and graphically perfect but utterly boring images you can see on any photo forum (including this one), and I would rate a 'photographer's eye' more highly than a full understanding of exposure parameters, let alone how they are set on a traditional-looking camera like a Leica.

BTW which digital Leica has a shutter speed dial marked in red?

[ianman]

35 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

BTW which digital Leica has a shutter speed dial marked in red?

I was assuming he means the display in the VF when in aperture priority mode.

Edited December 27, 2018 by ianman

[Ray Vonn]

No.  Despite my previous experience using cameras generally, there were still considerable adjustments to be made in my habits and composition.  Took less than a week before wondering why my sunset shot of the beach rendered a blank image when I got home (aka cap over lens).  All this despite doing a fair amount of research before purchasing.

[Me Leica!]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

It's certainly true that there are some excellent smartphone photographers out there who have no real need to be knowledgeable about the technicalities of photo production. They pay attention to the subject matter, timing and composition and leave shutter speed and ISO to the smartphone. Sure, they might become better photographers by an awareness of these nerdy bits, but when I look at the shots taken in my extended family by those using smartphones, I am often put to shame by their ability to produce striking shots (i.e. shots I want to look at again). Compare that with the technically and graphically perfect but utterly boring images you can see on any photo forum (including this one), and I would rate a 'photographer's eye' more highly than a full understanding of exposure parameters, let alone how they are set on a traditional-looking camera like a Leica.

BTW which digital Leica has a shutter speed dial marked in red?

Good points. But a smartphone, even a top level one, doesn't cost anything close to a new M and a lens.

As for the shutter speed, he was looking in the viewfinder, so I assume he had the thing on aperture priority. Hence the shutter speed - unless I'm mistaken - shows up in the viewfinder.

[steveclem]

Ask Neil. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[earleygallery]

I've got a whole host of stuff to worry about ahead of what someone else does or doesn't do with a camera.

OK yes, if I see someone using a Leica I would generally assume that they know a reasonable amount about photography, but of course one must never assume anything! All it really means is they've bought a Leica.

Just because someone drives a Ferrari doesn't mean they know HOW to drive a Ferrari, it just means they have the money to buy one

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by earleygallery