New Kodak 120 Backing Paper

[Stealth3kpl]

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To solve the problem some users experienced with frame numbers appearing on their images.

https://filmphotographyproject.com/content/news/2018/12/120-film-kodak-uses-new-backing-paper

Pete

[Stuart Richardson]

Glad to hear they are addressing this. I had some of the film that was affected, and wound up with Kodak writing and numbers in the skies of some of my photos...not fun and not easy to photoshop out...if you are the darkroom you were stuck. At the time I recall them saying it was a single truck that got stranded and the film was left too hot for too long of a time, or something like that. 

The worst situation I had like this recently, however, was with some brand new Toyo 4x5 holders. The changed the manufacturing of their dark slides and they would slowly fog the film. If you shone a bright flashlight against them you could actually see the light coming through. They were mostly ok if you kept them in a bag, but you would get strange patterns on your film in certain cases. It was very sporadic and difficult to trace because there are so many points of failure in 4x5 (bellows, holder not sitting right, light seals, lens mounts etc), and it was inconsistent, especially if the new holders were mixed in with older ones that did not have any problem. Looking at a solid piece of black darkslide in a brand new holder is likely the last thing you would expect to fail. 

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[Ambro51]

A good material for dark slides is Garolite XX.   McMaster Carr supply co sells it

[adan]

Yeah - the news about the new coating is about a year old (see 2nd page)....

.....but it is interesting to get a bit more detail.

[Pyrogallol]

Use Ilford FP4 instead.

[Jon Warwick]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:28 PM, Stuart Richardson said:

The worst situation I had like this recently, however, was with some brand new Toyo 4x5 holders. The changed the manufacturing of their dark slides and they would slowly fog the film. If you shone a bright flashlight against them you could actually see the light coming through. They were mostly ok if you kept them in a bag, but you would get strange patterns on your film in certain cases. It was very sporadic and difficult to trace because there are so many points of failure in 4x5 (bellows, holder not sitting right, light seals, lens mounts etc), and it was inconsistent, especially if the new holders were mixed in with older ones that did not have any problem. Looking at a solid piece of black darkslide in a brand new holder is likely the last thing you would expect to fail. 

The above is really interesting ...given I've been having a really frustrating time with a new Walker 4x5 and new Toyo holders!!

The attached is the worst example i've got of the type of "leak" i'm experiencing, but i get this type of blobby pattern on my film on a regular basis, ie, it's a random scattering of reddy-brown blobs across the frame.

Is this anything like you were seeing with your new Toyo holders?

Now that i've read your comment, i've held a iPhone torch onto the Toyo's black dark slide ....and i can see the light coming through the plastic!

I bought 4 brand-new Toyo 4x5 holders in 2018. I haven't yet tried a different brand to see if that is what's causing the issue.

If it's not the holders' dark slide, what else could it be? For example, internal light reflection as it bounces through the lens (I have a Super Symmar 110 XL), even though I shade it from direct sun?

Thanks for any thoughts ...this issue has been driving me nuts, so any pointers HUGELY appreciated!

 

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[pico]

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A test would be to put unexposed films in the holder and expose them to daylight with the darkslides closed. Then process.  My guess is that the plastic is not opaque.

 

[Pyrogallol]

Is it only with the new darkslides ? Have you used the same film with darkslides you know to be Ok? Or could it be something to do with the film and how it has been stored, handled or processed?

[pico]

6 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

[...] could it be something to do with the film and how it has been stored, handled or processed?

Unlikely because the margins where the film is under the retaining ridges are clear (black with reversal). I have had similar issues with high-speed infrared. Not all plastic is opaque.

 

[Jon Warwick]

21 minutes ago, pico said:

A test would be to put unexposed films in the holder and expose them to daylight with the darkslides closed. Then process.  My guess is that the plastic is not opaque.

 

Thanks for all chiming in so quickly. Pico’s idea of loading film and simply processing is a good idea. Especially as  I’ve found more comments on Toyo holders here....https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?131636-Blotchy-pattern-on-4x5-negatives/page6

My Toyo holders have plastic slides, and I can detect light if I hold a iPhone torch right onto the other side of the plastic slide. As per Stuart’s comment, this would have been the last thing I’d have assumed would be failing, if this is indeed what is causing the blobs.

[Stuart Richardson]

Jon, that is exactly what I had. I will see if I can dig up a picture. It is definitely the holders. If you contact Toyo in NJ they will send you aluminum replacements. They sent them to me in Iceland for free, so you should be good no matter where you are. 

[Stuart Richardson]

The 500kb limit is ridiculous, as it is rejecting my 300kb files...I am not sure what is wrong. In any case, here is one example. All that blotchiness is not supposed to be there. 

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[Stuart Richardson]

I literally cannot get around this 500kb limit, even with a 250kb image. I am sorry, I wish I could post more. But believe me, you 100% have the same problem I had. It looks exactly the same as many of the negatives I had. It can get worse or better depending on how long you exposed the holders to light, but that blotchy fog is exactly how it rendered on my negatives. Given that you can see through your holders with a light, it is surely the same thing. I am surprised this is still a thing...I replaced mine in 2016...your new holders must have either been on the shelf awhile, or they might have been returns etc. Where did you buy them? 

[Stuart Richardson]

By the way, I just shot a roll of tmax last week from batch number 154, which I believe is outside of the range they specified as having the problem, and I could vaguely see the markings in the sky. I was going to contact Kodak about it and see what they have to say...it was super annoying! 

[Jon Warwick]

Many thanks Stuart! If this is indeed the issue that has plagued my shots on 5x4, I’m absolutely delighted that I stumbled across your comment above about the Toyo slides. Really really the last thing I’d thought would be the leak, but making a lot of sense now (I bought 4x new holders, they all have the plastic slides that one can shine a light through, and most of my shots get these blobs).

I’m based in the UK, and based on your comment, I assume there is no European rep, so I guess it’s either NJ or Japan.

THANKS again for helping me resolve this!

[Stuart Richardson]

No worries. I would certainly inform the store where you bought it and ask them to check their stock. If they cannot coordinate a replacement for you, I am sure they can via Japan or the US. If you need more examples of my photos to compare to yours, please just email me. My email is available on either website linked in my signature. This issue was hugely frustrating for me, as I was plagued by it during my MFA, so I lost a number of pictures for my thesis work while I was figuring it out. I am glad if I was able to help. I, in turn, was helped by someone on the LF photography forum when I posted about it there. The internet is wonderful for connecting people and allowing them to help each other this way, though I have to admit I am kind of annoyed that there are still these defective holders on the shelves. They literally have one job to do...to keep out light. It is staggering that the only company making modern holders released so many of them with substandard darkslides!