jed Posted December 20, 2018 Share #1 Posted December 20, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello there, Well here's a weird Leica 'stepper' with s/n 183740 : https://www.ebay.fr/itm/7801-LEICA-Kamera-D-R-P-No-183740-TOTALSCHADEN-Ersatzteilspender/283306484889?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20170803113441%26meid%3D0802401dda4049a9baa083036af2e3fe%26pid%3D100277%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D332951207595%26itm%3D283306484889&_trksid=p2060778.c100277.m3477 Poor condition, OK. The s/n 183740 should be a "Standard" ? So that camera was updated during the war ? Just curious ! Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 20, 2018 Posted December 20, 2018 Hi jed, Take a look here Weird Leica 'stepper'. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted December 20, 2018 Share #2 Posted December 20, 2018 Updated BEFORE the war… then war took its toll… 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted December 20, 2018 Share #3 Posted December 20, 2018 IMHO updated AFTER the war, but before they change style in serial N. engravings (from N.o to Nr.). The speed dial report "B" position too. I guess this camera was updated il late 40ies, early 50ies, using spares. HOWEVER, AFAIK, the update from Leica Standard (the original ser. n.) to Leica IIIC was not possible, therefore it is essential to see the serial number engraved on the inner frame to exclude the fact that it is not a "fancy work" of some repair workshop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted December 20, 2018 Share #4 Posted December 20, 2018 Seems less likely a victim to the vagaries of war, but more likely to the incomplete action of a garbage compactor. I find it amazing that somebody is willing to bid even 30,50 € (as of 2018-12-20, 23:53) on that sorry lump of scrap metal. From the outside condition, I would not expect valid reuseable parts inside that could be worth a purchase. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 20, 2018 Share #5 Posted December 20, 2018 A IIIc 'stepper' would have a wider body than an earlier camera with that SN. So, the earlier SN must have been engraved on the wider top plate. Why this was done is the big question.The poor condition of the camera and poor photos of it make it difficult to make any conclusions. The Leica Archives may have some record of what happened to this camera as regards changes to its 'status', not the damage, of course. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted December 21, 2018 Share #6 Posted December 21, 2018 Because of the body differences upgrade of a III to a IIIf was also not possible. But I have one. Seems to indicate the factory would take in an old model and provide a new one with the same serial number in some cases - perhaps when repair was not possible for some reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 21, 2018 Share #7 Posted December 21, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) 14 hours ago, TomB_tx said: Because of the body differences upgrade of a III to a IIIf was also not possible. But I have one. Seems to indicate the factory would take in an old model and provide a new one with the same serial number in some cases - perhaps when repair was not possible for some reason. I would be interested to know whether the IIIf conversion has the normal top plate for a IIIf ( including black or red scale engraving and the design for the back windows) and whether the body has the same width as a normal IIIf. This would beg the question of how much of the original III was in the converted camera. We recently discussed sharkskin Ics that had been converted to IIf BDs, but, in those cases, the body width was the same and it was only necessary to add a new top plate. Hope this makes sense. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted December 21, 2018 Share #8 Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, willeica said: I would be interested to know whether the IIIf conversion has the normal top plate for a IIIf ( including black or red scale engraving and the design for the back windows) and whether the body has the same width as a normal IIIf. This would beg the question of how much of the original III was in the converted camera. We recently discussed sharkskin Ics that had been converted to IIf BDs, but, in those cases, the body width was the same and it was only necessary to add a new top plate. Hope this makes sense. William Well, checking again I find the serial number is from a 1936 IIIa, not a plain III. However, the body is IIIf size,top plate is fully IIIf RD (no adapter plate), die-cast shutter crate with recess for the IIIf bottom plate film guide "finger", etc. I don't see evidence that any IIIa parts are left. In previous discussions it was theorized that a IIIa may have been sent in for repair, and either lost or damaged so that the only "repair" option was to use a new body. Since the body had the same serial number as the one sent in, it could go through customs to the owner without added import duties of a new camera. The previous owner spent many years in South America, but I don't know where he came by this one. I know he used it before he got the 1955 M3 that I also got from him. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted December 21, 2018 Share #9 Posted December 21, 2018 Only some screws are common for IIIa and IIIc, possibly wind shaft for early IIIc. I tend to agree with suggestions above that the camera is a result of an upgrade outside of regular upgrade offerings and where the same SN has been retained to avoid customs charges. When was it done? Hard to believe that it was during wartime, I rather think that it was shortly after war, Leitz was looking for every opportunity to earn money and possibly used stocked parts. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 21, 2018 Share #10 Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) My 1941 Stepper red blinds IIIc factory upgraded to a IIIf, has a thin plate under the flash delay control, with the numbers 0-20. This is held in place by a couple of tiny set screws (at a guess the usual 1.75mm Leica ones). I am surprised that Leica even went so far as to replace the wind-on knob with a IIIf one. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 21, 2018 by wlaidlaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292455-weird-leica-stepper/?do=findComment&comment=3650964'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted December 21, 2018 Share #11 Posted December 21, 2018 Majority of stepper to IIIf conversions have a plate with flash contact numbers added, I have seen only very few where the whole top cover have been replaced. The reason was that wartime IIIc have a different die cast crate which would have been milled on some places to accommodate post-war top plate. Wind knob with film speed indicator, on the contrary, is very often to be found on IIIf conversions 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 21, 2018 Share #12 Posted December 21, 2018 20 hours ago, sabears said: IMHO updated AFTER the war... … I was joking about the " war " that this item seems to have suffered... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 21, 2018 Share #13 Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said: My 1941 Stepper red blinds IIIc factory upgraded to a IIIf, has a thin plate under the flash delay control, with the numbers 0-20. This is held in place by a couple of tiny set screws (at a guess the usual 1.75mm Leica ones). I am surprised that Leica even went so far as to replace the wind-on knob with a IIIf one. See the recent thread on sharkskins with photos. My IIIc to IIIf BD conversion has had the same changes with a plate held in with screws and has the 'f' film reminder wind-on knob. My Ic to IIf BD conversion has the newer wind on knob, but has had a completely new top plate (for obvious reasons) with an engraved scale and the same serial number as the original Ic. The explanation given by Tom and Jerzy above about the same number avoiding customs issues is an interesting point. One must assume that customs officials were never familiar with different Leica models and just looked at the engraved number which, if it matched the original number used when the camera went to Wetzlar, meant that the camera got nodded through. The immediate post-war period saw a lot of interesting things happening as regards 'upgrades' and conversions. Forum members would be well advised to check any cameras from that period for interesting changes. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jed Posted December 23, 2018 Author Share #14 Posted December 23, 2018 123€ ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schattenundlicht Posted December 23, 2018 Share #15 Posted December 23, 2018 57 minutes ago, jed said: 123€ ! „Staunliches waltet viel, und doch nichts Erstaunlichres als der Mensch“ („Amazing things abound, and yet nothing more astonishing than man“) [Aischylos] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 24, 2018 Share #16 Posted December 24, 2018 Anything with Leica on it seems to have a minimum price regardless of condition. I think that this one should have been described as having 'ultimate patina' perhaps? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckay3d Posted January 17, 2019 Share #17 Posted January 17, 2019 This used to be a IIIa. The top plate has been replaced and the Summar has been coated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292455-weird-leica-stepper/?do=findComment&comment=3665972'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 17, 2019 Share #18 Posted January 17, 2019 13 hours ago, mckay3d said: This used to be a IIIa. The top plate has been replaced and the Summar has been coated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The odd thing is that it still uses a IIIa rangefinder and they did not upgrade this when changing the top plate. It would not be possible of course, to use the later camera top plates (IIIc onwards) as they are a few mm longer than the IIIa and b bodies. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckay3d Posted January 17, 2019 Share #19 Posted January 17, 2019 Here is a shot of the back. On the bottom left you can see the small lug that IIIf's and later bodies had to facilitate the flash brackets. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292455-weird-leica-stepper/?do=findComment&comment=3666464'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted January 18, 2019 Share #20 Posted January 18, 2019 this is neither IIIc nor IIIf, it is IIIa sync, not too much in common with IIIc. Notice accessory shoe whch is higher than on regular III/IIIa/IIIb. This is to accommodate flash contact below. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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