kimaldis Posted December 17, 2018 Share #1 Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I posted some time back, I think it was here, about how I was getting badly under-exposed images occasionally. It appeared to be a random thing but I think, now, that it may not be and that I've nailed down some repro steps. The issue seems to be more obvious in scenes that are not of even brightness distribution; an interior, daylight, with window centre, for example or a landscape with a lot of bright sky. Manual shutter, auto ISO, I turn the camera on with live view off and take a shot. I then turn on live view, frame as before and take another shot. Comparing the two shots the first is at least a stop underexposed. I can consistently repeat this. second shot, ISO 200. First, ISO 500. I should probably do the same test on a tripod but I think this is close enough to illustrate the point. Thoughts? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 17, 2018 by kimaldis Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/292371-exposure-variance-viewfinder-or-screen/?do=findComment&comment=3648963'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2018 Posted December 17, 2018 Hi kimaldis, Take a look here Exposure variance, viewfinder or screen.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chaemono Posted December 17, 2018 Share #2 Posted December 17, 2018 You must have a faulty camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share #3 Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, Chaemono said: You must have a faulty camera. Possibly, but it could also be a firmware issue. I'd be interested to hear if anyone can get the same results using these repro steps. If they can I'll take it up with Leica. If they can't then I guess the camera goes back to the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted December 17, 2018 Share #4 Posted December 17, 2018 This can be expected depending on how you have Exposure Mode set in the menu. Using the optical finder exposure is always measured off the patterned shutter blades before the shutter opens. This is similar to Center Weighted metering. Using live view it uses the metering pattern selected in the menu, such as Multi-Field, which is by analyzing the live view sensor output. There will be differences except for metering a uniform grey card. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share #5 Posted December 17, 2018 OK, that makes sense. I had Multi-field. There's still quite a difference even when set to centre weighted. The difference really is quite marked. I'd say, depending on the scene, it can underexpose by one to two stops when using the optical viewfinder. Not really great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 17, 2018 Share #6 Posted December 17, 2018 As a coincidence, I plan to do some exposure tests with three different cameras (Z7, α7R III, and M10) and the same lens to see how each camera meters. See post #27 here: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/291766-z7-with-m-lenses-vs-m10-image-thread/?page=2 It’s good that you started his thread. I’ll post the links to the Raw files here. BTW, I thought the guy’s reaction in #30 was a bit weird, almost as if this was going to spoil his Christmas holidays. 😀 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted December 17, 2018 Share #7 Posted December 17, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your test took a strange example, a scene with bright light in one part surrounded by lotsa dark. Of course, multi-field, centered, and spot using live view are all going to give different exposures as they pick something to turn into middle grey. And they will differ from "classic" OVF exposure. To see if there is anything strange going on, first do use a tripod, and take a boring picture of an evenly lit scene indoors, where the light range from floor to ceiling is only 2-3 stops at most. Or if you want to get really scientific, shoot a nice bright colored wall. Then compare those -- they should be quite close. Then start to learn how the different modes handle scenes with light sources in them. You'll be ready for Christmas lights in no time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share #8 Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said: Your test took a strange example, I don't see that as at all strange. Difficult, yes but scenes with widely varying luminance range aren't that uncommon. But if you like I can give you a better example. A landscape with 2/3 sky, 1/3 land will behave in much the same way. A quality camera should be able to deal with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted December 17, 2018 Share #9 Posted December 17, 2018 Difficult is why you got different results with different metering modes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share #10 Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, scott kirkpatrick said: Difficult is why you got different results with different metering modes. I ... what?!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 17, 2018 Share #11 Posted December 17, 2018 vor 7 Minuten schrieb kimaldis: A quality camera should be able to deal with this. Yes, yes, there’ll be lots of links to Raw files to see how the Z7, the α7R III, and the M10 deal with it in this thread. Don’t worry. Let’s just keep it going until then, so that we get lots of people to gather around here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 17, 2018 Share #12 Posted December 17, 2018 What lens? What aperture? What shutter speed? If set to aperture priority what maximum shutter speed did you have set? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrostl Posted December 18, 2018 Share #13 Posted December 18, 2018 9 hours ago, kimaldis said: I had Multi-field. Case is already closed, folks. He was using a different metering mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted December 18, 2018 Share #14 Posted December 18, 2018 vor 2 Stunden schrieb astrostl: Case is already closed, folks. He was using a different metering mode. Don’t be a party pooper. He started a nice thread begging for Raw file comparisons Z7 vs. α7R III vs. M10 with the same lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 18, 2018 Share #15 Posted December 18, 2018 12 hours ago, kimaldis said: A quality camera should be able to deal with this. Different metering modes will give different results, that is why you are given the choice, that is what a photographer does, he has an opinion and makes a choice. Either try making your metering modes the same for both OVF and EVF or alternatively read a book on photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 18, 2018 Share #16 Posted December 18, 2018 Which is the correct exposure anyway? The one that takes account of the highlights, or the one that takes account of the whole scene? FTAOD, These are rhetorical questions, because the only possible answer is: they are both correct, it depends on what shot the photographer wants to take. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share #17 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said: Which is the correct exposure anyway? The one that looks right. Always. There's no such thing as "correct exposure" 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share #18 Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, 250swb said: read a book on photography. I have a degree in photography and nearly half a century of professional experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted December 18, 2018 Share #19 Posted December 18, 2018 18 hours ago, kimaldis said: OK, that makes sense. I had Multi-field. There's still quite a difference even when set to centre weighted. The difference really is quite marked. I'd say, depending on the scene, it can underexpose by one to two stops when using the optical viewfinder. Not really great. Kimaldis, the centre weighted exposure with LiveView is different than the standard centre weighted exposure, while using only OVF (LV is completely off). The exposure modes in the menu are only available for LiveView or EVF, not with OVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimaldis Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share #20 Posted December 18, 2018 2 hours ago, fatihayoglu said: Kimaldis, the centre weighted exposure with LiveView is different than the standard centre weighted exposure, while using only OVF (LV is completely off). The exposure modes in the menu are only available for LiveView or EVF, not with OVF. Yes, I'd worked that out. But thanks all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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