Dismayed by the M10-D

[PeterGA]

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On 12/27/2018 at 8:39 PM, adan said:

mujk - received and understood.

PeterGA - Religion, hardly. Not even philosophy. I just find that pictures that achieve "simultaneous recognition, in a fraction of a second, of the significance of an event as well as of a precise organization of forms which give that event its proper expression" - whether my own or others' - rise above the herd. "The decisive moment" takes up less space; consider it an abbreviation.

That quote comes from HCB's introduction to Images à la Sauvette/The Decisive Moment, to be found here.

http://fotoroom.co/decisive-moment-henri-cartier-bresson/

Perhaps lct has access to the original French, so as to check the translation.

Andrew : the phrase "images a la Sauvette " ( the French Title of his Work ) - means (literally) "Images on the Fly"

The phrase 'the Decisive Moment' was the title used for the American Edition of the book ....

parsing the quoted phrases in LCT's translated response through each of these as different filters - provides much difference. I suspect HCB was a French speaker first....

Anyway the conversation has moved on from a narrow defintiion of what he was on about...

 

On 12/27/2018 at 8:50 PM, jaapv said:

Actually, this whole debate is slightly distasteful to me as it reduces the ability and artistry of the photographer to his gear.

Great (action) photographs have been made and will be made using rangefinders, but also using SLR cameras  (sports photography, for instance) and EVF ones.  The only question is whether the tool fits the user. Which is highly subjective.

Agree with you entirely - I think it is a good thing to remind ourselves that cameras are only tools and that the photographer makes the image.

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 12/25/2018 at 12:17 AM, fabior said:

rhythm, lag, decisive moment ... all things correlated at our capability to be part of the moment and predict whats 's going on to capture the magic instant to shot. As I like and practice karate I found strong correlation between these activity .... to understand better why not look this video 

 

I think that is a great example to think about.  With an awareness of what is happening, you can choose whether to shoot after the event, using the reaction, during the event, capturing the interaction, or...  But I most like the idea of attacking the intention rather than the attack itself (in the terms of the video).  There's a great Elliot Erwitt picture taken in a Soviet wedding parlor while couples are waiting for their turn that is an example of this.

Edited December 29, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick
trying not to repost the video

[pico]

14 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

There's a great Elliot Erwitt picture taken in a Soviet wedding parlor while couples are waiting for their turn that is an example of this.

The best known version here, was was also done in color.

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Nice comparison.  It seems that he carried two cameras, shot the color first (intention) and then the B/'W reaction or perhaps the "moment."  I have always liked the color shot better.

[jaapv]

7 minutes ago, pico said:

The best known version here, was was also done in color.

 

Which shows that there is not just one moment.

[mdemeyer]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:54 PM, Kwesi said:

Jono,

Oftentimes, trying to make everyone happy can be a thankless job. Bravo for trying.

Here is my 2 cents.

1- Die hard M users have no problem with buying SL for CL cameras in addition to their M's

2- Leica should make an M styled  and sized SL camera with L mount fixed. Its the only way to enjoy the economies of scale required to make a profit.

3- Sell an M adapter to fit inside the L mount. Charge what you want for it but make it inward facing so it doesn't protrude.

On point #3. It has to protrude - the flange distance on the L Mount is smaller than the M Mount. 

[luoyiigsnrr]

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Photographers needs diverse solutions. M10-D is one of them. No one versatile solution can meet with diverse needs, I bet. Will the hybrid of M, AF, EVF, and etc. succeed? M is M, let it be as it is in years.

[DaveSee]

On 12/14/2018 at 12:45 PM, marknorton said:

I understand there are some Leica purists out there who will buy it but I am not among them. I've been using the M10 since it was launched and two M8s, two M9s and an M240 lie unused like those planes in an Arizona desert.

Most recently, I have bought a Nikon Z7 - 45 MP, excellent EVF - and I use it with Novoflex M and R lens adapters so it's a higher resolution platform for M and R glass than anything Leica have to offer. The older wide angles (21/24 Emarit ASPH for example) are not great but the newer wides are very good, the APO 50 Summicron, the 28-90 R, the APO 180 R, the 100 R macro, Leica glass shining. Worth also mentioning Nikon's solution for legacy F glass is much better than Leica's feeble effort to support R glass on the SL.

Makes me think that what I want from Leica is an M body with the SL EVF and no rangefinder. The M10 EVF is a toy now and completely outclassed. Yes, I know M stands for Mess-Sucher and an M camera without a rangefinder is not a true M, but so what? An M10 body with the SL EVF and a higher resolution sensor would provide the same user experience I am getting from the Z7 now and if a hump on the top plate is the price to pay to accommodate the EVF, that's fine.

Leica have produced an M10 which dumps the screen. I would much rather they produced a version which dumps the rangefinder instead. It's now a dated and expensive anachronism, witness the difference in price between an M10 and an SL.

----------------8k----------------------- Above, Mark's OP --------------------- Below, mine, well after-----------------------

Good points Mark (OP), and those of others posting to this thread.

If "dismayed," I find the "cyborg-like" M10-D OVF so: really? LED framelines only when the rig switched on? Seems a full-on EVF may be probable with this M Typ240 OVF in place

Simply, it's that simple: the long-time M's OVF displayed lens framelines _optically_, like the RF patch; that is, am dismayed with the LED framelines in M10(-P,-D) OVF.  This also indicates in-camera firmware "lens correction" is _active_, whether M-mount lens is 6-bit encoded, or not... if not, then (modus ponens/predisposed) to "apply assumed lens correction algorithms," regardless photog inter-/vention/ference?.  I have used Leica lenses & cameras because they get what I see & wish to record so well, especially because both stay out of my way... K, I'm weened on Leica film gear

Using an earlier M OVF was so clear of such visual noise... to my next observation regarding "EVF:"
Again, visual noise--even if I frame through the finder--is a given, but why compound, increase this "noise" in the "tiny EVF screen for one eye?" To what end all this additional visual noise?  "A better picture..." Heh, "the picture" is always there, regardless "EVF engineering displayed," right?  Please advise if I'm mistaken... or not?

Jaap, am thankful for your comment "paper is patient."  Would add, so too the pencil/brush, patient. I jumped (back) in with the M10-D for this very reason: patience... or better, a return to the making & patience to learn with each image, how to improve use of this tool & varied lenses, not distracted by "what the camera is programed 'Auto'"  K, you working photogs may not have this convenience of, um, "patience." 

The M10-D has released me, & my lenses from the 1.3 crop of the M8... However, FOTOS is no replacement for the screened M10 versions, yet. 

in uniton,

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by DaveSee