Forged repair certificate for M9?

[goatsby]

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Has anyone ever heard of someone forging a repair certificate for a Leica camera?

Here is my dilemma, I purchased a M9 used about a year or so ago from the original owner. He stated that he had the sensor replaced three times due to corrosion, the last being on 2015-October-16 in Wetzlar, which would make that sensor the latest corrosion-proof one. Last week, as I am thinking of selling the camera to upgrade, I reached out Leica Germany (since that is where the repair took place) whom sent me to Leica USA. Leica USA confirms they replaced the sensor in 2014, but no record of the 2015 service. I produced the certificate attached here and asked what service was performed for that service number. They then stated that neither Leica USA nor Leica Germany has any service records for this camera. I persisted on looking up the specific service number and have not heard back.

My feeling is that I am getting blown off by Leica USA, as I have never seen or heard of a forged repair certificate. The seller is a reputable professional photographer and do not know why they would lie, especially since I purchased the camera when the free sensor replacement was still available. I just want to find out what was done to my M9 on this service and confirm that it indeed does have the latest sensor, any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated since Leica USA is not much of a help.

Adam

    

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[Fran]

Interesting, I had a similar experience with the Leica store in San Francisco and a lens repair.  They said they had no record of the repair because they had changed their record keeping software and all the information prior to the new software change had been lost.  I'm not sure if the stores are owned and operated by Leica, but maybe the same thing happened and they don't want to fess up.  Good luck trying to resolve the issue.

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[Stuart Richardson]

Reach out to customer service in Germany directly  again and send a copy of the picture. They should be able to confirm if they have those signatures working as inspectors and technicians...it seems unlikely that someone would forge this...

It may benefit you to call them and speak to them in person. Most speak English fluently, so communication should not be an issue. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Stuart Richardson

[LocalHero1953]

That date format (month/day/year) is widely used in the USA but not in the UK (which uses day/month/year) - I'm unsure about Germany. Could that be a clue?

[pico]

7 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

That date format (month/day/year) is widely used in the USA but not in the UK (which uses day/month/year) - I'm unsure about Germany. Could that be a clue?

Another clue is the cursive handwriting which is clearly not German.
But we know it was supposed to originate in the USA.

Shame on Leica for their poor database. It is as if they had never learned the basics, or are pretending ignorance.

 

[LocalHero1953]

11 minutes ago, pico said:

Another clue is the cursive handwriting which is clearly not German.
But we know it was supposed to originate in the USA.

Shame on Leica for their poor database. It is as if they had never learned the basics, or are pretending ignorance.

 

The OP  said the repair was supposed to have been done in Wetzlar.

[oldwino]

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definitely not german handwriting. The numbers are not how they are written in Germany and the date is the US format.

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

That date format (month/day/year) is widely used in the USA but not in the UK (which uses day/month/year) - I'm unsure about Germany. Could that be a clue?

Germany uses the format: dd.mm.yyyy . The use of dots instead of dashes or slashes is very specific. That handwriting is almost certainly not German.

[goatsby]

Interesting on the date format and hand writing. I know the seller had the camera serviced through Leica Store Los Angles here in the states so wonder if that has something to do with it..

[jaapv]

Maybe the Leica Store can shed light on this mystery?

[goatsby]

But, shouldn’t Leica have a database that has this service number on file, regardless of where it was serviced?

[goatsby]

I will send an email to them with the seller’s name and see what they may know.

[jaapv]

At that time Leica NJ was having severe computer trouble as they were switching to different software.

[LeicaR10]

Goatsby & Fran,   I know for a fact that Leica NJ repair center lost a lot of records and repairs when they converted to SAP software that Leica Germany moved to several years ago.  Plus, Leica NJ literally lost my 90mm lens for nearly 10 months that was sent for a simple CLA and coding.  It took personal intervention by the owner of Leica Store San Francisco with Leica USA CEO Roger Horn who ordered the repair department to find my lens.  They did, along with many other not logged in "repairs" in a back room.  Leica NJ repair has under gone a major overhaul of personnel (read fired, new personnel and multiple trips by Leica Germany technicians to train and clean up the massive NJ backlog),  expand, update facilities and "customer care" in the last 3 years.  It does not surprise me there is no record of your camera sensor replacement.  I have not sent anything to Leica NJ since my lens debacle from 3 years ago and only arrange warranty work being sent direct to Leica Wetzlar or out-of-warranty to Don Goldberg at DAG.  Last, I tell people who are thinking about buying any used M camera bodies from eBay or otherwise to have the seller provide the Leica sensor replacement invoice.  No Leica invoice...no sale.  

r/ Mark 

PS  It's possible the certificate shown was done by one of the German technicians who was sent to help train and clean up the backlog at that time.

Edited December 15, 2018 by LeicaR10
Clarification

[ianman]

4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

That date format (month/day/year) is widely used in the USA but not in the UK (which uses day/month/year) - I'm unsure about Germany. Could that be a clue?

I think in Germany, the 7 would probably be crossed too.

[jaapv]

A crossed seven is French, quite unusual in  Germany.

[jaapv]

20 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

 

PS  It's possible the certificate shown was done by one of the German technicians who was sent to help train and clean up the backlog at that time.

Quite unlikely - no German would write and date like that.

[LeicaR10]

Goatsby,  One last idea for your M9 issue.  First, if your M9 does not show any corrosion at this time that is a good thing for a sale.  Second, you wrote that Leica NJ did confirm the camera sensor was replaced in 2014.  I would ask Leica NJ Customer Care to send you a confirmation email listing your M9 with serial number as proof the sensor was replaced.  At least you have proof the sensor was replaced for the sale and disregard the certificate.   Or third, send the camera for inspection to verify there is no corrosion and get a new certificate and Leica invoice for proof at time of sale.  

As for who might have written the certificate who cares, there is no record...although, I understand orangoutangs were outsourced at that time by Leica NJ to do repairs.  But hey, its just a rumor at this point.

r/ Mark

[goatsby]

9 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

First, if your M9 does not show any corrosion at this time that is a good thing for a sale.  Second, you wrote that Leica NJ did confirm the camera sensor was replaced in 2014.  I would ask Leica NJ Customer Care to send you a confirmation email listing your M9 with serial number as proof the sensor was replaced.  At least you have proof the sensor was replaced for the sale and disregard the certificate.   Or third, send the camera for inspection to verify there is no corrosion and get a new certificate and Leica invoice for proof at time of sale.

Good ideas, Mark, thank you for bringing those up! And thanks to everyone for their comments. I’ll let everyone know what Leica LA has to say when they get back with me.

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[TomB_tx]

The handwriting on your certificate on the left page looks identical to my certificate from 2017 - also LEICA NJ