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Unusual FILCA B


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Has anyone come across a Filca B engraved like this before?

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So..

I’ve showed this cassette to Lars Netopil in Wetzlar and James Lager, neither of which have seen this before. So far there is no explaination for the engraving, but the research continues. I wonder if the word ‘patent’ features on other Leitz products of the same era out there, that could help explain the engraving practices at the time and reasoning behind them..

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I have about 17 or 18 FILCAs (I don't use them, but they have fallen into my collection by various routes). I have 1 A and 2 Cs and the rest are Bs. Only 4 of the Bs have any engraving and they are all the same with 'Ernst Leitz Wetzlar' on one side and 'Germany' on the other - see my bad photo below. There is no reference to 'Patent' on any of my examples. Leica/Leitz were assiduous applicants for patents and the book 'Oskar Barnack- From the Idea to the Leica' by Ulf Richter contains a lot of detailed patent applications by the company in Germany, the UK and the US. These relate to cameras and lenses and not to accessories. As only some of my FILCAs have any engraving I suspect that the engraving was short lived. The company may have applied for a patent for the FILCA at some stage and the papers for this should be in the Leica Archive which is being established. I agree with Lars and Jim that the 'Patent' engraving is unusual, but I have often discussed variations in items with both of those gentlemen and the conclusion was sometimes that such variations were often down to whoever was supervising the production that week. We had a recent discussion on this forum about ever ready cases where similar variations abound. Leica /Leitz was fond of putting its patent rights on its cameras, though, and everyone here will be familiar with the D.R.P. standing for 'Deutsches Reichspatent' on the top plate of early Leicas.

William

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Although not reproduced in Richter's excellent book (there were too many early Leitz patents to reprint them all), I can confirm that there was a patent that seems to cover all of the FILCA's main principles. To my knowledge, and after researching on the DEPATIS database of the German Patent Office, the patent never was rescinded in Germany (of course, all prewar German patents were rescinded by the Allies after the war).

Kind regards,

Mathias

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EDIT:

Actually, after reading the patent text in detail, I find that this patent does not fully cover the FILCA which is even more ingenious, circumventing the need for any light seal whatsoever (item #11 in Fig. 2) by cleverly machining the inside vs. outside can‘s film slits. I will dig deeper, if I can find an additional Leitz patent on this matter. However, minus the light seal, the above clearly represents the FILCA principle.

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So, after some more research, there is actually NO patent on file that resembles exactly what we find in the FILCAs. Either the patent was disputed, or they decided, not to file it (maybe because of seeing a danger of infringment on third parties' patents), or they thought that the FILCA, as manufactured, was sufficiently covered by the patent detailed in my previous post.

That the Leitz engineers continued to find more or less practical solutions to optical and mechanical problems (sometimes falling victim to overengineering) can be gleamed from a patent that was submitted three years after Barnack's death. It describes an intricate set of interchangeable film cans that would be directionally  locked on inserting into a camera. I don't think it went beyond prototyping 🙂

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44 minutes ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

This is so very interesting, do you know if patents filed but not granted would show up in the records? It is intriguing why something would be engraved patent without having being patented. Could it be the canister in question was sent in  to achieve copyright but then refused?

As far as I know (disclaimer: I am no patent attorney) only granted patents show up. However, often patents are granted upfront (they just have to be plausible) and will be rescinded only after some substantiated claims on primacy by others, leading to a searchable but no longer valid patent. I don't think that applications that were rejected in the first place can be found in the database. They, simply speaking, are not patents in the legal sense at all.

I don't think that your item is a copyright specimen, because it is not necessary to build a prototype in order to achieve a patent or copyright. So many good ideas are stored in the vaults of companies that are not eager to disrupt or endanger establishhed product lines... All it takes, is a description in text and a technical sketch.

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55 minutes ago, schattenundlicht said:

Although not reproduced in Richter's excellent book (there were too many early Leitz patents to reprint them all), I can confirm that there was a patent that seems to cover all of the FILCA's main principles. To my knowledge, and after researching on the DEPATIS database of the German Patent Office, the patent never was rescinded in Germany (of course, all prewar German patents were rescinded by the Allies after the war).

Actually, after reading the patent text in detail, I find that this patent does not fully cover the FILCA which is even more ingenious, circumventing the need for any light seal whatsoever (item #11 in Fig. 2) by cleverly machining the inside vs. outside can‘s film slits. I will dig deeper, if I can find an additional Leitz patent on this matter. However, minus the light seal, the above clearly represents the FILCA principle.

The document which you show here looks from the drawing like it is for the FILCA C ( the A and B were already in existence), but some of what you say could also relate to the D which I have never been able trace apart from the Agfa-Leitz cassette which seems to be based on the D design. We discussed this at length in a thread which I started some years ago.

14 minutes ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

This is so very interesting, do you know if patents filed but not granted would show up in the records? It is intriguing why something would be engraved patent without having being patented. Could it be the canister in question was sent in  to achieve copyright but then refused?

I think your only chance is to ask the Leica Archives (Mrs Bock) whether they have any record or copy of such a patent application.

William

 

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Sometimes, patents were accompanied by later ammendments that stated that part of the original patent had been rescinded by decision of the official bodies. An example of that is shown below (I could not find a Leitz example on the quick, thus an early Rollei (Franke & Heidecke) patent is detailed below with the ammendment ("Ergänzungsblatt").

Kind regards

Mathias

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Interestingly, in your photo willeica,the Filca on the left has the writing ‘germany’ off centre unlike the others with the positioning and style of all the engraving being identical to mine. It almost seems like the ‘patent’ was removed from the mould.. or space left for it..? The others I’ve seen have ‘germany’ positioned centrally as expected.

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1 hour ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Interestingly, in your photo willeica,the Filca on the left has the writing ‘germany’ off centre unlike the others with the positioning and style of all the engraving being identical to mine. It almost seems like the ‘patent’ was removed from the mould.. or space left for it..? The others I’ve seen have ‘germany’ positioned centrally as expected.

You are obviously looking at this more closely than I did, but you could well be right. There is some distortion in the photo which I took with an iPhone. These FILCAs seem to have been well used. The FILCA on the left was used by a well known photographer in the Netherlands around the 1940s, whereas those on the right were used by a Swedish photographer from the 1930s onwards. The latter group came in a box with compartments and some metal FILCA holders. The inside of the lid of the box has records of photos taken around 1935 (some in England) written into the square lid of the box. I am putting these items on my 'later research' list for when the Leica Archives are fully established.

William

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On British technical items you often used to see the legend: "Patent Applied For". I believe this was to block competing patents and did not start the clock running on the expiry of the patent, until such time as the patent was activated. Rather like houses you see in Spain with the second floor only half completed, thereby avoiding property taxes, which only start on completion of the build. Having only once in my life tried to patent something (Warranty/Guarantee claim costs tracking and analysis software for manufacturers) it is a nightmare process, where the actual patent fees are dwarfed by your patent lawyer's charges. 

Wilson

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