Why is there no auto-focus for any of Leica's cameras/lenses?

[thrid]

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I think the whole history of AF is rather convoluted.

 

Nikon released the rather clunky F3AF (contrast detection) in 1983, along with at least two lenses for it.

They also showed an AF system as early as 1971...

 

Apparently Canon had some AF lenses in the very early 80's that used an IR system (sensor in the lens)

 

So, there's a lot more to this than we suspect.

[wildlightphoto]

1976: The Leica R3 is introduced. Minolta produces the R3, R4, and R5 models in the Leica R series.

 

My R4, R4s, and R4sP bodies were marked "Made by Leitz Portugal" or "Made in Portugal". Some R3 bodies were marked Made in Germany and some were marked Made in Portugal. I don't recall what was stamped on my R-E body, but it was not Japan. Many components were purchased from Minolta, other components were purchased from other suppliers, the final assembly was by Leitz.

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[AlanG]

I think the whole history of AF is rather convoluted.

 

 

Well this seems to be a pretty good time line and explanation of various AF systems. No mention of Leica.

 

Autofocus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

There is very little info on the net about the Leica Correfot system. But it seems that it was shown in 1976 but was never developed beyond a prototype. The best I can tell, part of the image was projected down onto a optical system that either was spinning quickly or moved back and forth. This contained a diffraction grating and the image was analyzed by sensors that then directed motors on how to move the lens.

 

Here is a diagram with explanations in French. Maybe you can figure it out better than I could.

 

Correfot

 

At that point in time, Honeywell already had at least 80 patents on autofocus. I do not believe that the Correfot system is anything like the AF systems in current usage. But perhaps it too would have been covered in some way by a Honeywell patent. In any case, I don't see why anyone would have done further development on this technology considering the alternatives that were becoming available.

 

"Honeywell v. Minolta

Represented Honeywell in a patent infringement case against Minolta involving patents on autofocus cameras. After a five-month trial, the jury awarded Honeywell $96.3 million. The case subsequently settled for $127.5 million. Additional litigation against other autofocus camera manufacturers resulted in total settlements of approximately $500 million."

 

This is probably the only AF Leica in use (other than Panasonic models.)

 

Unorthodox Leica Autofocus - Photo.net Leica and Rangefinders Forum

 

From what I can surmise from these forums - Leica users don't want any additional technology to be put into the Leica cameras. I am sure Leica has come to another conclusion in order to have a competitive product in the S2. What direction they'll take with future products is anyone's guess. But my guess is they'll be more advanced and more feature rich than the S2. Why wouldn't they be?

Edited March 31, 2009 by AlanG

[thrid]

My R4, R4s, and R4sP bodies were marked "Made by Leitz Portugal" or "Made in Portugal". Some R3 bodies were marked Made in Germany and some were marked Made in Portugal. I don't recall what was stamped on my R-E body, but it was not Japan. Many components were purchased from Minolta, other components were purchased from other suppliers, the final assembly was by Leitz.

 

By the time Leica got to the R6, Minolta was apparently only casting the casing for them. There is one rumor going around that the death of Minolta is one reason why they stopped making the R6.2.

[lars_bergquist]

People who have tried the S2 prototypes comment on how good the finder and the manual focusing is. So Leica seem to have licked the focusing helical and finder problems.

 

Now the question is, have they also licked the autofocus problem? They seem to think that they have. We shall see in a few months. If they did it, then Doug Herr can eventually have his R10 with first class manual focusing, and other people can have manual apertures and shutter speeds, and the rest ...

 

I worked for many years as a picture editor. Most 'professional' photogs couldn't even hold their cameras straight. AF and AE, however flaky in theory, do no doubt help them produce better results than they would otherwise get. Now we only need AH --- Automatic Camera Horizontal Adjustment.

 

And do you know? I do actually keep my M8 set to AE, for quick action. Maybe the picture won't be exposed to a t (a lowercase, four point T) but I do get it, and believe it or not, mostly it is pretty well exposed. When I have time, I switch to manual---and haul out my hand meter set to Incident.

 

The old doddering troglodyte from the Age of the M4-P

[AlanG]

Now the question is, have they also licked the autofocus problem? They seem to think that they have.

 

I played with one at a show last October and the AF seemed fine to me. Quite quick and accurate and it was under typical indoor lighting. I generally only use a center focus point so it seemed about the same as what I am used to. For high speed action... I can't say. I rarely do that anyway. The finder is bright. Manual focusing seemed good on it. (This is the best I can recall after 6 months.) In 2009, AF is pretty mature technology.

[jrc]

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Despite Doug's and Jamie's support of manual focus instruments, large parts of the wildlife and wedding markets seem to get on just fine with Nikons and Canons, and large parts of the Leica world -- those people who like the M3, Tri-X, moving-camera, shooting-in-the dark, cinema-verite look -- might tell you that not only is sharpness not everything, it isn't even very much...

 

Doug produces amazing bird shots; assuming that he is in, say, the top ten bird shooters in the world, I wondered what the other nine shoot? If its not Leica manual, do their images simply not measure up to Doug's? Or is manual focus just a Doug Herr idiosyncrasy? I googled "Most Famous Bird Photographer" and the first one that I checked, a guy named Brutus Ostling, who has done a number of bird books and has been named "Nature Photographer of the Year" in Europe or some part of Europe (not too clear on that) shoots Canon.

 

As for wedding photographers, I googled "most famous wedding photographers," found a Pop Photo feature on the top ten wedding photographers, looked at only the first one (Denis Reggie) and find that he shoots Canon.

 

So it's not like it can't be done with autofocus cameras...

 

I think Leica doesn't make autofocus cameras because it has an old-fashioned machine-tool culture that does not know how to use electronics and software. Leica's not traditional, or going for simplicity - it's simply behind, no matter what excuses people make. Tell you what: having worked out with a Panasonic G1 m4/3 for a few weeks now, as my carry-around camera, I would say that cameras like the G1 are going to eat Leica's lunch, if Leica doesn't modernize. Small, light, relatively cheap, fulltime manual focus *with autofocus*, selectable image stabilization...even Doug might find useful the ability to magnify the eyepiece image twenty or thirty times and then focus on that. The optics are not up to Leica's, nor is the viewfinder, but this m4/3 is only the first in a line of cameras that will rapidly be getting better.

 

I have fun with my M8, and will buy an M9 if it has focus-confirm, but if my income depended on photography, I'd be shooting a Nikon (now) or a later evolution of a G1.

 

JC

[Pelu2010]

Six years later ! 
the Sl system comes along ….

And I am not sure when the Af was introduced to the S System.