Fuji GFX vs SL

[Jeff S]

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2 hours ago, ynp said:

AFAIK it’s a a Bayer sensor installed  in the GFX-50r. 

Yep, and in its bigger 50 MP GFX sibling.  We’ll see what the 100 MP provides.

Jeff

Edited December 23, 2018 by Jeff S

[Succisa75]

Having shot pretty extensively with the S007, SL, GFX50S and R here are my thoughts. 

The S007 focusing is one of its Achilles Heels plus the quality of the lens doesn’t compare to the SL lenses in my opinion. I feel like the IQ out of the SL is better. This could be due to the processor, lenses etc., but I prefer the SL to the S. 

The GFX is a different story. 

Build quality of the 50S and R isn’t as good as the Leica SL and the price reflects that,  but I feel the image quality is what you gain, especiallly resolution and dynamic range. Have to say the 50R feels like it’s better built compared to the S though.  Both are GFX’s are slower cameras for sure, but all medium format cameras are. Video on the GFX system is forgettable. SL will win big in that department. As for the GFX lenses, not all are great. The 110 is a fantastic lens and really is the star of the Fujifilm GFX lineup in my opinion. The 63 is okay but the 45 is much better. The 250 is a beast and not the easiest to shoot with or carry with the 50S. However with the 50R you will really struggle. 

The SL has speed, great EVF, decent video capabilities, build quality and the lens lineup is pretty solid. I’ve taken some stunning pics with it in good lighting, but in low light conditions it struggles compared to MF and the dynamic range isn’t as good.

if you are a photographer that shoots portraits, products, landscapes who doesn’t need 10 fps shooting, the GFX series will impress you with the Image quality compared to the SL. 

The SL will win on speed, build quality and prestige.

BTW the GFX works with Leica M mount lenses as well and much better than the X1D because it has a mechanical shutter. 

 

 

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[Chaemono]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb Succisa75:

The S007 focusing is one of its Achilles Heels plus the quality of the lens doesn’t compare to the SL lenses in my opinion. I feel the IQ out of the  SL is better. This could be due to the processor, lenses etc., but I prefer the SL to the S. 

Who doesn’t feel this way. It’s definitely due to processor, I think 🤔. And slower AF, much slower, than the SL just ticks me off. And the S lenses, they are the worst.

[meerec]

I held the GRX-R body in the shop last week. Wow!! I thought at the first glance it was a mock-up for display only. It felt like one. This thing is made entirely of plastic, and has no heft to it whatsoever. It weighs nothing, like an empty plastic box. Having shot with the SL for three years now, this was a bit of a shock to me. I’m not saying it’s totally bad, the new materials (plastics) are sometimes harder than steel. But I really didn’t expect it. And yes, I quickly counted the different buttons on the body, and there is more than 15 (!) different things to turn or press. OMG it’s a computer not a camera anymore. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by meerec

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, meerec said:

OMG it’s a computer not a camera anymore. 

Maybe it's an age thing ..... or many years of having used mechanical film cameras .... but the I find the 'button infested' modern camera a complete turn-off and irritant.

Luckily every digital Leica I have had so far has been uncluttered or configurable (by button disabling/reassignment and profile use)  to dispense with the need of multiple external controls that generally just get in the way of the image taking experience. 

I've no problem with loads of features being available ...... if required ..... but I don't want buttons for all of them ... 

Edited December 30, 2018 by thighslapper

[helged]

2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Who doesn’t feel this way. It’s definitely due to processor, I think 🤔. And slower AF, much slower, than the SL just ticks me off. And the S lenses, they are the worst.

Compared to what...? (using 4 SL and 5 S lenses myself). 

[Chaemono]

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb helged:

Compared to what...? (using 4 SL and 5 S lenses myself). 

Compared to Mr. 34-posts’ statement.

[ynp]

2 hours ago, Chaemono said:

And the S lenses, they are the worst

Do you mean the Zoom? It’s not perfect for brick walls and landscapes at 90mm but it’s good for people shooting. The rest of the S lenses are fantastic IMHO. 

[Succisa75]

9 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Compared to Mr. 34-posts’ statement.

Yes I don’t have a lot of posts as I don’t frequent forums as often as I would like, just trying to give my thoughts on the various systems since its something I have some experience with. Not trying to start anything negative here so apologies if my post came across that way. 

[Chaemono]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb Succisa75:

Yes I don’t have a lot of posts as I don’t frequent forums as often as I would like,...

Don’t worry. That just gives you more credibility.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb ynp:

Do you mean the Zoom? It’s not perfect for brick walls and landscapes at 90mm but it’s good for people shooting. The rest of the S lenses are fantastic IMHO. 

I don’t own any S lenses except the APO-MACRO-SUMMARIT-S 1:2.5/120 (CS) to use on the SL (got an incredible deal on it from a multi-brand dealer in Denmark before the S3 was announced. He wanted to get rid of stock). I compared it to the 90 Summicron-SL. It’s as sharp, meaning it resolves as much detail, wide open but creates a very pleasant, ‘organic’ look. With the 90SL contrast behaves differently. The SL lens resolves the same amount of detail as the S lens, but the pictures have a very modern look to them.

Some have claimed that the new SL Summicrons are better than the S lenses and have wondered when Leica would bring out S lenses with similar contrast behavior. This is my personal opinion, but based on what I’ve seen only with the Macro-Summarit 120-S, it’s in the same league as far as detail resolution wide open is concerned, but the look is different. And this may have, IMHO, nothing to do with a new design philosophy at Leica, at least not for their portrait lenses. One of the newest Leica lens, the 75 Noctilux-M that came out in 2018, also doesn’t have this ‘modern sharpness’ look that the 75 Summicron-SL has, but to my eyes the pictures have an organic, almost film like look to them. BTW, I own both 2018 Leica 75s. 😀

[Agent M10]

5 hours ago, Chaemono said:

And the S lenses, they are the worst.

I don’t get this statement at all.

[Chaemono]

Consider that there is some irony in it. 

[tom0511]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Chaemono:

...., but to my eyes the pictures have an organic, almost film like look to them. BTW, I own both 2018 Leica 75s. 

Thats exactly what I have always liked about images from the Leica S and as good and sharp as SL lenses are, I still find the images form the S have this more organic look.

I do however enjoy the flexibility of the SL-Zooms and the speed of the SL - I can not see how SL images/lenses should be better than S lenses.

 

 

[thighslapper]

Please explain what an 'organic look' is. 

I cannot find it anywhere with regard to the optical properties of lenses. 

[BernardC]

8 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

The S007 focusing is one of its Achilles Heels plus the quality of the lens doesn’t compare to the SL lenses in my opinion.

That just goes to show that one photographer's trash is another's treasure.

My experience is the exact opposite. I find the GFX impossible to focus with its low-res VF. You need to zoom-in every time, which doesn't work with moving subjects.

The other option is to use AF, where you are guaranteed that focus will be off! This ruins the medium-format experience for me; I may as well use 35mm or APS-C and increase my odds of getting sharp images.

The S (006 in my case) is a joy to focus, by comparison. You can place your focus point anywhere on the giant screen and be confident of your results.

Obviously, that's a consequence of focusing SLR cameras manually since I was a teenager. The S is quite simply the best SLR camera ever made, in terms of its viewfinder. To me. that's a slice of heaven.

[Chaemono]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb thighslapper:

Please explain what an 'organic look' is. 

I cannot find it anywhere with regard to the optical properties of lenses. 

It’s subjective, of course. What I can do is use the SL with the 75 Summicron-SL and the M10 with the 75 Noctilux-M (too cold to change lenses), either both at f/2 or both stopped down a bit to something like f/2.8. But I’d say it’s better to do the comparisons at f/2 because that’s where the character of the 75 Summicron-SL comes through the best. Anyway, the 75 Noctilux wasn’t meant to be used at all like the 75 Summicron-SL wide open. As a general purpose lens, the SL lens excels if one likes that sort sharp look. 

[Agent M10]

21 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

It’s subjective, of course. What I can do is use the SL with the 75 Summicron-SL and the M10 with the 75 Noctilux-M (too cold to change lenses), either both at f/2 or both stopped down a bit to something like f/2.8. But I’d say it’s better to do the comparisons at f/2 because that’s where the character of the 75 Summicron-SL comes through the best. Anyway, the 75 Noctilux wasn’t meant to be used at all like the 75 Summicron-SL wide open. As a general purpose lens, the SL lens excels if one likes that sort sharp look. 

I took a look at the new LFI again. It has articles with the new SL lenses and some Ms like the 35mm Summilux. There is a difference in rendition. The older lenses look softer (not bad, but a tad softer), but I wouldn't characterize the SL photographs as a "sharp look." They are just that much "better." I haven't compared the 50SL to my 70S yet. But I'm happy about the new SL primes.

[tom0511]

vor 48 Minuten schrieb thighslapper:

Please explain what an 'organic look' is. 

I cannot find it anywhere with regard to the optical properties of lenses. 

For me it is if midtones look "natural", image looks detailed but not artifical sharpened, background blur looks smooth, overall the more "organic" an image looks the less I feel looking at an image. The transition to background and tonality are a big part of it IMO.

Another area are colors, I dont know how to describe but sometimes colors can look strong without looking artificial. In small sensor cameras often colors look strong but artificial. Maybe because the larger the sensor the smoother the tonal and color transitions? Or is it 16 bit? Or the lenses?

I dont know.

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[helged]

13 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

For me it is if midtones look "natural", image looks detailed but not artifical sharpened, background blur looks smooth, overall the more "organic" an image looks the less I feel looking at an image. The transition to background and tonality are a big part of it IMO.

Another area are colors, I dont know how to describe but sometimes colors can look strong without looking artificial. In small sensor cameras often colors look strong but artificial. Maybe because the larger the sensor the smoother the tonal and color transitions? Or is it 16 bit? Or the lenses?

I dont know.

The 16 bit files may make a difference - I dont know - but there is something special to the S-images (far from always, obviously, but more often than not). Regarding the two lens systems, the closest comparison is likely to run the SL and S lenses on the same sensor, i.e., on the SL. I have done some sporadic twin-tests but nothing 'scientific', and my impression is that the SL primes are on top, optically speaking (micro contrast, contrast, chromatic aberration, sharpness across the image, flatness of field, flare resistance, etc.), whereas the S-lenses tend to add some (Mandler-like) softness that appears pleasant to my eyes. It will be interesting to see the extent to which the upcoming 48 mp L-sensor (Panasonic, and possibly Leica) and the 64 mp S3 sensor may influence the respective lens system's renderings.