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Leica CL vs TL2 dynamic range

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Interesting. Actually it is exactly what Bill Claff has found : TL2 has a too high black point. It sacrifices shadows to protect highlights. That’s why TL2 DR seems so high. But it is not the case. 

In fact it makes kind of sense here. TL2 was designed for beginners in mind (please don’t over react. It seems the case for Leica’s mind) So it is an easy to use camera, with little to none post processing. So totally logical to protect highlights in this case  

CL was designed for more traditional Leica’s customer, willing to get the best from their photos, even through post processing. In this case it is better to protect shadow recovery ability.

Whatever, these differences make it difficult to use a CL alongside with a TL2. CL sensor is more in line with Q, M10 and SL  ones 

 

But I wonder why TL2 AF performance still lag behind CL’s in 2019 ? Maybe the « different » sensor ? 

 

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43 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

But I wonder why TL2 AF performance still lag behind CL’s in 2019 ? Maybe the « different » sensor ? 

 

or the CL has different algorithms to process the raw data from the same sensor

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It does not make sense for a company to use two different algorithms for sibling  cameras sharing same lenses. 

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My guess is CL AF likely licensed from Panasonic and Leica pays royalties for it. They probably can’t make the numbers work for the TL2.

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Am 12.1.2019 um 19:16 schrieb Chaemono:

..... I have tons of these pairs at ISO 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 and 3200. I'm keeping my CL (impressive low-light AF accuracy and speed relative to the TL2 today).

 

TL2 + 35 Summilux-TL DNG file here: 

ISO 1600 f/1.4 @1/640 sec.

CL + 35 Summilux-TL DNG file here: 

ISO 1600 f/1.4 @1/640 sec.

 

I just stumbled upon this thread, because I was about to buy a TL2 as a backup/ second body for when I'm working with my SL.

Right now I'm using the SL with mostly the 90-280 as a workhorse in concert (mostly classical) settings. The Electronic shutter allows me to work silently so that's basically a must have.

I did use the Q as a second body - for shots of the entire stage and crowd but I find the 28mm to be too wide most of the time. Also the Q and SL colors don't really match when post processing - even at the same WB settings. I always have to tweak them.

I did use a CL briefly and was surprised by the output - so very close to the SL with the added benefit of getting even closer. However I really didn't get along with the 23mm Summicron and find all other lenses to be way to large for the small body. When my eye Sensor thingy broke after a couple of weeks, I returned the camera.

The TL2 seemed like a cheaper alternative to the CL - but having compared your shots I must say I'm a bit shocked. The TL2 files are horrible in comparison. 

 

Sadly the only other modern Leica that would be quiet enough is the M10-P ... which would be the ideal solution - if it wasn't for the price....

 

Am a bit lost now tbh.

 

Thanks for all your research and the files, helped me out a lot! 

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On 1/12/2019 at 9:59 PM, nicci78 said:

....................................

Whatever, these differences make it difficult to use a CL alongside with a TL2. CL sensor is more in line with Q, M10 and SL  ones 

..................................

Maybe you should try it. In practice the TL2 and CL make a good pair with different ways of working, producing, again in practice, similar files.

14 minutes ago, diddus said:

 

I just stumbled upon this thread, because I was about to buy a TL2 as a backup/ second body for when I'm working with my SL.

Right now I'm using the SL with mostly the 90-280 as a workhorse in concert (mostly classical) settings. The Electronic shutter allows me to work silently so that's basically a must have.

I did use the Q as a second body - for shots of the entire stage and crowd but I find the 28mm to be too wide most of the time. Also the Q and SL colors don't really match when post processing - even at the same WB settings. I always have to tweak them.

I did use a CL briefly and was surprised by the output - so very close to the SL with the added benefit of getting even closer. However I really didn't get along with the 23mm Summicron and find all other lenses to be way to large for the small body. When my eye Sensor thingy broke after a couple of weeks, I returned the camera.

The TL2 seemed like a cheaper alternative to the CL - but having compared your shots I must say I'm a bit shocked. The TL2 files are horrible in comparison. 

 

Sadly the only other modern Leica that would be quiet enough is the M10-P ... which would be the ideal solution - if it wasn't for the price....

 

Am a bit lost now tbh.

 

Thanks for all your research and the files, helped me out a lot! 

Don't overthink it. I don't doubt there are differences between CL and TL2 files, but not so great as to cause problems for most uses. Try them for yourself at a dealer.

I know what it's like - you can go round and round in circles when trying to decide what lens or camera you want to buy out of a choice of two or three. But when you get to the stage of worrying about tiny issues (which these are, IMO), then you have to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think about how important these things are in your own photographic world.

Edit: FWIW I use the CL, TL2 and SL. The choice between using them is entirely down to the practicalities of what I'm photographing and how. Differences in IQ play very little part.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

...Don't overthink it. I don't doubt there are differences between CL and TL2 files, but not so great as to cause problems for most uses. Try them for yourself at a dealer.

I know what it's like - you can go round and round in circles when trying to decide what lens or camera you want to buy out of a choice of two or three. But when you get to the stage of worrying about tiny issues (which these are, IMO), then you have to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think about how important these things are in your own photographic world....

I get what you're saying, but I'm incredibly picky when it comes to sensors -- I've tried quite a few cameras in the past - fuji seems nice -> absolutely hated the X-Trans files. 

The M240 seems nice ... couldn't stand the output. 

I'm still in love with my M9 and the S 006 (never tested the 007) but those are sadly hardly ever suitable for the work I do most of the time (still use them for private projects) - the SL despite being a camera that I thought I wouldn't like is great in all respects but size and weight. 

Like I said, I really found the CL output to be the closest match to my SL - hell I have trouble getting my files to be consistent when I use two M9s and a 35mm and 50mm Summilux.... 

I don't have much time to work on pictures usually - but I don't just export my raws - I always give a look. If the sensor - or indeed lens signature - is too different it becomes tedious work. 

The SL is the first camera that I don't have to worry about in a professional or private setting - it just works. M lenses, R lenses, L lenses, stacked adapters ... whatever I try seems to work flawlessly. 

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