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Best Practice for setting Menu on the Leica M10 and Leica M10-P by Overgaard

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I own "only" the CL but most things of your article are adaptable to it. For this I have a question:

 

In your chapter "Aperture priority setting to manual exposure setting" you explain how to correct a picture in advance, that might become too dark.

Wouldn´t it come to  the same result with correcting the EV? That possibility is often limited in the maximum limits (mostly +-3EV), but much handier on the CL on the right topwheel instead of switching the Mode from automatic to manual.

 

Sorry for the switch from M to CL, but I think its a basic question also for the M.

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16 hours ago, AndreasB said:

I own "only" the CL but most things of your article are adaptable to it. For this I have a question:

In your chapter "Aperture priority setting to manual exposure setting" you explain how to correct a picture in advance, that might become too dark.

Wouldn´t it come to  the same result with correcting the EV? That possibility is often limited in the maximum limits (mostly +-3EV), but much handier on the CL on the right topwheel instead of switching the Mode from automatic to manual.

Sorry for the switch from M to CL, but I think its a basic question also for the M.

 

For the CL and other cameras that doesn't have a shutter speed dial on top (which is the case for most cameras, whereas all cameras had one in the 1970's), using "the wheel" is the way to do it. 

On the Leica M that has the shutter speed dial, so that would be the most natural to use: It's the classic way; you can see the setting exactly; and it's fast. It further goes with the logics of a camera where ISO, aperture and Shutter speed all move with 1 EV for each stop. You turn any of those dials clock-wise you get more light. You turn them counter-clockwise you get less exposure. 

I wrote an article about "the wheel" some time ago here: https://the.me/inventing-the-wheel-for-photography-by-thorsten-overgaard/

 

 

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Thank you very much for this informative article. I learned a lot more than I had thought I would about a camera I have been using for a couple of years now, and I have made quite a few changes to my settings. Paul

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I use the wheel in darker environments in A-Mode and automatic ISO in order to avoid that the picture is too light resp. lighter to what my eyes see. In that case the ISO would go higher than needed. And further I use the wheel when it has to go quick. In all other situations I have my M10 on full manual mode and I do not need the wheel.

But still I appreciated the article from Thorsten and I read it with great interest. It took me actually a while to understand what the "wheel" was.

Edited by Alex U.

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39 minutes ago, pedaes said:

In the article referenced it says base ISO is 160. What are you seeing?

Base ISO was set at 100 when the M10 was introduced....

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vor 19 Stunden schrieb Alex U.:

...It took me actually a while to understand what the "wheel" was.

I'm in the same camp as you. It took me a couple of months to understand what the "wheel" did. Now I love it.

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I still can’t understand what you refer to the wheel is!    Forget the CL.  I have always used the  shutter speed selector on the top in combination with the light meter in the evf to find my exposureS on digital Ms  It’s quick and accurate.   The thumb wheel on the rear does allow +or - three stops adjustment, but I’m not sure that Thorsten is suggesting you use that.  In fact, Thorsten has discouraged the use of exposure compensation.   Read his post.  It’s a pity that the issue became confused when someone appeared to suggest that the compensation wheel should be used.   

Ive used the shutter speed adjuster since my M9.  Can’t see how the compensation wheel can give quick settings with visible feedback.

Or is this being lost in translation.  The M bodies are not the same as the CL.  

There is only one designated wheel.  It’s the thumb wheel on the rear and it’s description and function (selectable) is found in the M10 instructions.

correct me if I’m wrong.  

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From Jono Slack:

 

Quote

The Customise Wheel option allows you to change the function of the Thumb Wheel, there are three options:

Off

Exposure Compensation

LV Zoom

 

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Regarding the base ISO: As I understand it, base ISO is a physical property of the sensor. The only thing that can be changed by a firmware, is the reference point for the Auto ISO, not the base ISO itself. So maybe the phrase "changing the base ISO" is a bit inaccurate?

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Chaemono:

I'm in the same camp as you. It took me a couple of months to understand what the "wheel" did. Now I love it.

Oh Chaemono, be careful 🙂

According to Thosten you should NOT love it and use the „exposure time“-button instead. I actually agree in this with Thorsten. As he describes the case, in the 60ies or 70ies we had no such wheel. That was his point. There was no need. At that time we knew WHERE to measure the light and set the exposure accordingly. We had no „A“ mode. So there was no need for the wheel either. 

I peronally use it only in darker environments when I want to make sure that the picture is as light as the sceene I see (not lighter). This is the case in street at night or events and concerts. Thorsten describes how he just uses 2 ISO settings plus the lens wide open. Then he has to think about the exposure time . . .

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Sorry, „exposure time“ should be „shutter speed“. I translated from german . . .

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I started to read the article and gave up half way through (not sure I got that far) - I stopped at the bit about reviewing images.  Much like Thorsten’s earlier pronouncements that there’s no point in buying fast lenses if you don’t shoot wide open, the article seems full of pronouncements which make little sense to me.

I agree that relying on automation is a bad habit which might not make the most of your M camera, but the stricture against using EV compensation is just odd.  Surely the critical issues are:

  • selecting an ISO appropriate for the day - I was brought up to use the best ISO for the film, and in digital I’ve taken that to mean using the “base” ISO for the sensor.  I understand that for the M10, this is 200.  For the SL, it seems it’s best to use 50 or 200 as base, but not 100, and for the Monochrom 320.  I tend to use 100 on the TL2.  On the Monochrom v1, I use Auto ISO because I don’t mind ISO adjusting to the meter - if ISO goes to 10,000 it must be pretty dark and I’ll be under exposing anyway.
  • using the shutter speed to freeze (or not) the movement in the image.
  • setting aperture for depth of field.
  • focusing to give the best field of best focus for the image.
  • Auto white balance - it gives a good enough starting point.

If you use the meter in the camera (and I think it is worth getting to know), then how you meter and how the camera responds in A or M modes becomes important.  I can see considerable benefit in setting the EV compensation at -2/3 as a starting point to protect the highlights, and no reason not to.  

What works for me is to set the camera up so that I know the starting point with the camera (EV Compensation, ISO and white balance), and I can then control aperture, shutter, focus and composition without surprises.  I then don’t expect to have to chimp.  Obviously, Thorsten follows a different path, and that works for him.

Cheers
John

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6 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I started to read the article and gave up half way through (not sure I got that far) - I stopped at the bit about reviewing images.  Much like Thorsten’s earlier pronouncements that there’s no point in buying fast lenses if you don’t shoot wide open, the article seems full of pronouncements which make little sense to me.

I agree that relying on automation is a bad habit which might not make the most of your M camera, but the stricture against using EV compensation is just odd.  Surely the critical issues are:

  • selecting an ISO appropriate for the day - I was brought up to use the best ISO for the film, and in digital I’ve taken that to mean using the “base” ISO for the sensor.  I understand that for the M10, this is 200.  For the SL, it seems it’s best to use 50 or 200 as base, but not 100, and for the Monochrom 320.  I tend to use 100 on the TL2.  On the Monochrom v1, I use Auto ISO because I don’t mind ISO adjusting to the meter - if ISO goes to 10,000 it must be pretty dark and I’ll be under exposing anyway.
  • using the shutter speed to freeze (or not) the movement in the image.
  • setting aperture for depth of field.
  • focusing to give the best field of best focus for the image.
  • Auto white balance - it gives a good enough starting point.

If you use the meter in the camera (and I think it is worth getting to know), then how you meter and how the camera responds in A or M modes becomes important.  I can see considerable benefit in setting the EV compensation at -2/3 as a starting point to protect the highlights, and no reason not to.  

What works for me is to set the camera up so that I know the starting point with the camera (EV Compensation, ISO and white balance), and I can then control aperture, shutter, focus and composition without surprises.  I then don’t expect to have to chimp.  Obviously, Thorsten follows a different path, and that works for him.

Cheers
John

Couldn't agree more, and I don't much like prescriptive comments about "best practice" etc.  We develop useful habits and muscle memory that work for the way we individually  take photographs, and I find it faster to thumb the wheel for exposure compensation instead of using the shutter dial. I also instinctively feel an easier relationship with EVs & zones rather than shutter speed & zones though that's probably mental laziness on my part. Each to his own.

 

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On 12/3/2018 at 11:21 AM, IkarusJohn said:

I started to read the article and gave up half way through (not sure I got that far) - I stopped at the bit about reviewing images.  Much like Thorsten’s earlier pronouncements that there’s no point in buying fast lenses if you don’t shoot wide open, the article seems full of pronouncements which make little sense to me.

I agree that relying on automation is a bad habit which might not make the most of your M camera, but the stricture against using EV compensation is just odd.  Surely the critical issues are:

I read Thorsten's article on M10 menu settings and thoroughly enjoyed it!

Even though I leave all my Leica cameras set on "M" (manual) and I do all the exposure judging in my head, after a lifetime of cinematography and photography. I still got a lot out of all  of the generous work and care that Thorsten put into this article. It is a noble thing to share your hard-won knowledge with strangers, and I honor him for doing that. I did not adopt all of the 'Practices" Thorsten reccommended to change my M10 menu settings, but I thought again about all of my settings, and did change many to try out his thinking. I am always open to questioning and rethinking working methods, and if you don't then (for me) I believe that is being inflexible. 

 

See my photography and cinematography at: HarryMathiasImages.com

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