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Will there be new ASPC L-Mount lenses?

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34 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Well, for the first I think that even full frame is on the small side, let alone APS-C, for the second, the results will always be better using a tripod. Such a lens will always be a niche product. My guess is that the price would be  err... interesting, even if built by Sigma. My favourite  medium fast wideangle on the CL is the Summilux 24 M, and that one costs twice the price of the body. Hardly worth buying unless one already owns one for the M series.

No argument from me, on both counts.

But if, for whatever reason, one would be put off by other formats and, again, for whatever reason, one would choose not to use a tripod, I believe a fast wide prime may yield potentially adequate results for those applications.

As an alternative to the above, we could find that the L mount alliance sways companies like Metabones to develop a focal reducer. In such a scenario, a Sigma 20mm f/1.4 + a focal reducer would be an interesting setup, albeit clumsy and heavy.

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First A very fast 21 or 24mm provides beautiful images. Less boring than a standard wide angle zoom with everything in focus style. 

Second : TL mount terribly lacks ultra wide angle primes. No M mount wide enough to fill the gap. 

Third : Super-Vario-Elmar 11-23 is a stunning lens, but too boring and too slow to be used indoor. Lack of IS make it even worst. 

After 11 months and 12,000 pictures taken with the CL. I can say that f/2.8 is an absolute minimum to make the CL usable anywhere (indoor and outdoor)

f/3.5 to f/5.6 are totally useless and force to use ISO 25000 and/or slow shutter speed far too often. 

Indoor for moving subject like a child 1/100th is a minimum. 1/60 is prone to motion blur. 

 

That’s why Summilux 14 or 16mm in the size of a Summilux-TL 35mm will be so great and useful. 

Edited by nicci78

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Lack of IS? on a wideangle lens?  I manage to handhold the camera with 18 mm up to 1/2" reliably and 1" with a fair rate of success. Practice and technique are surely preferable to a huge investment in yet another lens.

 

Maybe that is the reason that Leicas are favourite cameras with dentists: they are trained to have a steady hand :lol:

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Lack of IS is an issue INDOOR for long lens such as very slow f/5.6 56mm of the Vario Elmar. Or quite slow  APO-Vario-Elmar f/3.5-4.5 55-135mm

Slow aperture is an issue for wide angle because of MOVING subjects. May be sober you can handhold half second still with an 18mm, but the playing child will not give you such a pleasure  

 

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Err... How is IS going to help for a MOVING subject?  And a long lens indoor? How large is your room? You were talking about the 11-23.

I have been shooting very long lenses all my life - when I reached the limit of handholding I simply used a bean-bag, and yes, I like IS on a (very) long lens, it opens up opportunities.

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1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

First A very fast 21 or 24mm provides beautiful images. Less boring than a standard wide angle zoom with everything in focus style. 

Second : TL mount terribly lacks ultra wide angle primes. No M mount wide enough to fill the gap. 

Third : Super-Vario-Elmar 11-23 is a stunning lens, but too boring and too slow to be used indoor. Lack of IS make it even worst. 

After 11 months and 12,000 pictures taken with the CL. I can say that f/2.8 is an absolute minimum to make the CL usable anywhere (indoor and outdoor)

f/3.5 to f/5.6 are totally useless and force to use ISO 25000 and/or slow shutter speed far too often. 

Indoor for moving subject like a child 1/100th is a minimum. 1/60 is prone to motion blur. 

 

That’s why Summilux 14 or 16mm in the size of a Summilux-TL 35mm will be so great and useful. 

And there was I thinking that it was the photographer that made photos boring or interesting..........😉

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IS do not help about moving subject at all. 

Please read more carefully my comment. I wrote about 2 separate situations :

1. lack of IS for long lens to be able to use SLOWER shutter speed  in order to keep low ISO  

2. lack of large aperture for wide angle to use FASTER shutter speed for moving subject  without raising ISO  

IS give us the ability to shoot long lens at 1/100th. That is speedy enough for normal human being   

No IS means : 1/400th at least to shoot with the APO-Vario-Elmar at 135mm. So you loose  2 stops for nothing. 

The 18-56 really needs IS. Just imagine f/5.6 at 1/180 minimum in dark environment. 

For any other situations. IS is not always useful. 

 

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2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

IS do not help about moving subject at all. 

Please read more carefully my comment. I wrote about 2 separate situations :

1. lack of IS for long lens to be able to use SLOWER shutter speed  in order to keep low ISO  

2. lack of large aperture for wide angle to use FASTER shutter speed for moving subject  without raising ISO  

IS give us the ability to shoot long lens at 1/100th. That is speedy enough for normal human being   

No IS means : 1/400th at least to shoot with the APO-Vario-Elmar at 135mm. So you loose  2 stops for nothing. 

The 18-56 really needs IS. Just imagine f/5.6 at 1/180 minimum in dark environment. 

For any other situations. IS is not always useful. 

 

You do need much faster speeds than I do.

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1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Don’t you find iPhone or compact cameras photos completely dull ? Due to unlimited depth of field ? 

No. I use such cameras to try to take interesting pictures. Particularly those where I want unlimited depth of field.

I have seen completely dull photos by many photographers using technically advanced/sophisticated cameras and lenses. Sometimes also with Leicas.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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On 12/16/2018 at 3:04 PM, nicci78 said:

After 11 months and 12,000 pictures taken with the CL. I can say that f/2.8 is an absolute minimum to make the CL usable anywhere (indoor and outdoor)

f/3.5 to f/5.6 are totally useless and force to use ISO 25000 and/or slow shutter speed far too often. 

Indoor for moving subject like a child 1/100th is a minimum. 1/60 is prone to motion blur.

LoL

100 years ago people came up with two useful inventions which are often forgotten by the modern man cultivated in the time of smartphone photography: (i) a tripod and (ii) a flash.

Even on a CL you should be able to use a remote flash trigger such as a cactus v6, so that with distributed light sources you can take marvelous indoor pictures.  A problem with shooting wide open at close distance is the rather shallow DoF anyway.  I just substitute one type of blur by another.    IS does not help with running kids or any moving target. IS is good for indoor architecture and often can be replace by simple monopod.

Furthermore, you need to consider your output media. Motion or hand shake blur, which is clearly visible at 200% in LR on a screen becomes irrelevant on a 10x15 or 20x30 print (which only uses 6MP). You really need to go to 40x60cm prints and above to see such a blur - on a forum or other web posted irrelevant.

My impression: people want to shoot hand-held high resolution files in the dark, with very compact and light weight but very fast lenses  and look at an amplified digital crop at 200% to be unhappy about noise, shake etc. It is more useful to use the right tool for the job and look at the final result instead of a digital crop of a corner.

For me it appears to be a strategic decision: if you want to maximize the benefit of  compactness of Leica's APS-C line then you need to stick with compact lenses. You can use the 23/2 and 35/1.4 for your purpose, the 11-23 appears more an landscape lens which you ultimately use on a tripod at ISO 100. Otherwise, what's the point for the CL or the TL. I own a Nikon 17-55/2.8, a chunk of a heavy zoom for a Nikon APS-C DSLR lineup. I switched to the CL since I was sick of the heavy gear which stayed home most of the time.  

Sadly, fast lenses and compactness exclude each other. We will see that once Sigma will adapt their Art line to the L-mount. Then a 1.4/14mm WA would be an option for you if you are willing to carry a 1.1-1.2kg lens with you.

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No need for flash or tripods with M lenses. Summilux 35/1.4 v2 below. Even affordable ones like CV 35/1.4 and ZM 50/1.5 prove compact enough on the CL. Harder to find fast compact wides though. Better use both FF and APS bodies then. Pity nobody wants to make small 21/1.4 or 24/1.4 M lenses in APS format.

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Tripod and/or flash ? Are you living in the 50’s? 

What’s so nice nowadays is handhold abilities of modern cameras. 

Why choose a small APS-C to haul around massive travel tripod (yes still massive) and an awfully low harsh power flash ? 

Or even bigger a remote flash and its stand ? 

 

Fast APS-C lens solves all these problems 

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My favourite wide in smaller format cameras like apc and 35mm - is a non-Leica lens it is Fuji's 16/1.4 - makes for a fantastic environmental portait lens - that and the 100-400 +TC were reasons enough to pick up a 'cheap' camera body... I  would appreciate a fast lens equivalent or even wider for the CL - I suspect Sigma will sell a lot of L mount lenses.

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I believe Voigtlander make a 21mm f1.8 that is not too lumpy in size (M-mount)

Sigma WILL sell a lot of lenses in L mount because the image quality of Sigma lenses (I have used many many of them) is fantastic and they will cater for all needs almost immediately.

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2 hours ago, Marac said:

I believe Voigtlander make a 21mm f1.8 that is not too lumpy in size (M-mount) [...]

78 x 69mm, 412g. Same dimensions as a 90mm Summicron or Elmarit more or less.

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