A Leica IIId

[alan mcfall]

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I recently added this camera to my collection. Serial number 367105, with red curtain, and self-timer. Original (?) Elmar lens serial 511515. I have had the top plate removed to verify the same serial on the chassis, the self-timer examined to confirm that it is the early (and somewhat tempermental) version and not the later model from a IIIf, and the rings on the lever are six. Interestingly, the backing plate on the self-timer lever is also machined differently than one on a IIIf.  From records, this camera was shipped from Wetzlar on May 2, 1944, to Bucharest.

Another fine point of issue on early die cast cameras, is the small mark on the platform for the A-R lever. It seems, some early customers were not advancing the lever far enough and creating rewind problems, so the mark was added.  This camera does not have the mark, but other close serial IIId's are the same. Perhaps someone has more specific information about this.

I have a IIId data base with 75 observed cameras, originally there were 432 made ( some say 427) by my study; and many have been flash syncronized or otherwise updated over the years, or lost in the war. If anyone has any knowledge or has seen this camera before, I would be interested to know, so as to see how it got from Romania to Australia and then to me.

I have the feeling that it is possible that quite a few IIId  cameras were started in assembly and then set aside due to problems with the self-timer; and then finished and shipped at a later date.  Clearly, Leitz made major revisions for the new IIIf self -timer and did not make it available until 1954.

 

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[ironringer]

Lovely survivor camera, Alan. Thank you for sharing it and providing an education about its details. Will you use it?

[romualdo]

Alan, just out of interest where in Australia did this come from?

Many WWII refugees, mainly from Europe (particularly eastern) came here soon after the war ceased plus many more migrated to the antipodes in the late 40s the 50s & 60s (White Australia Policy migration programs).

That's probably how the camera got here in the first place.

The comment you make about the six rings on the distal timer lever - is that specific to this model?? (IIId) - my IIIg has 4 rings (how many on the IIIf?)

Edited November 20, 2018 by romualdo

[luigi bertolotti]

1 hour ago, romualdo said:

 

The comment you make about the six rings on the distal timer lever - is that specific to this model?? (IIId) - my IIIg has 4 rings (how many on the IIIf?)

Yes… is a small but unique feature of the IIId…  … on the IIIf I'm rather sure to have seen both 5 (as mine - ought to be the standard) and 4 like in the IIIG. 

[Pecole]

The Leica IIId was definitely one of the most interesting pieces of my collection - and one of the most difficult to secure. I had two : serials 360069 dating 1942 and 367308 of 1944. Dennis Laney says the 1942 series is serialled 360001 to 360125, the 1944 one 367001 to 367325. Further, following van Hasbroeck, the series 367305-367324 has been delivered to the Japanese naval attaché of the Berlin embassy in 1944

My earliest model had a black shutter blind and no slow speed dial lock, the other one a red blind. Both had of course six concentric stepped rings on tip of self-timer.

I especially like the image where I presented my IIId with a Summitar and a black MOOLY (another rarity).

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[willeica]

That is a lovely camera, Alan and all of the signs look good as regards it being a genuine IIId. The IIId was basically a IIIc with a self timer mechanism. The 367001 to 367325 is said on most lists to be for IIIcs produced between 1941 and 1944, but a lot of cameras in that range were known to have been produced as IIIds. The fact that the SN on the top plate matches the SN on the chassis is a positive sign. In a previous post on this forum, Jerzy stated that whether a camera is a IIId depends on the self timer mechanism itself (which was different to that for the later IIIf) and not just the six concentric rings on the lever head. The original self timer mechanism on the IIId was less reliable than the later one on the IIIf and the fact that yours is temperamental would seem to also point towards this being a genuine IIId. Jerzy mentioned that some IIIcs were 'updated' later with self timer mechanisms. 

The serial numbers in the range mentioned above seem to have been held over for the IIId. I have IIIc with SN 371915 which is a red shutter IIIc from 1941-42, which would point to your one having been from a 'reserved' number range for IIIds.

William

Edited November 20, 2018 by willeica

[Pablo8]

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Interesting to see the 111d bodies. I have a 111c . No. 506174  Flash Synchro added. Have a Summitar 50mm f/2.0  No. 724207 which has developed a resistance to collapsing. The inner barrel rotates to the collapse position, but will not collapse. This does not worry me too much now, as I am using the lens, with adapter, to fit my Sony A5000 camera. A warning I read somewhere warned that collapsing when fitted to the Sony, might cause collision inside the Sony body. Just wondered if there was a known quick-fix for the collapse non-event. 

Regards and thanks for any replies... Paul.

[willeica]

1 hour ago, Pablo8 said:

Interesting to see the 111d bodies. I have a 111c . No. 506174  Flash Synchro added. Have a Summitar 50mm f/2.0  No. 724207 which has developed a resistance to collapsing. The inner barrel rotates to the collapse position, but will not collapse. This does not worry me too much now, as I am using the lens, with adapter, to fit my Sony A5000 camera. A warning I read somewhere warned that collapsing when fitted to the Sony, might cause collision inside the Sony body. Just wondered if there was a known quick-fix for the collapse non-event. 

Regards and thanks for any replies... Paul.

I once got bought an M5 with a collapsible lens (which is dangerous because of the swinging lollipop light meter in the camera). The person who sent me the camera had put some rubber bands around the lens barrel to prevent full collapse and as a warning to myself. I was already aware of the issue, of course.

Going back to the IIId issues, the book 'Museum Leica' by Lars Netopil shows an early prototype of a Leica III ( from about 1933/34) fitted with a self timer. The self timer was mounted high up on the body and had an operating button on the top (compared to at the side in production models) to avoid the lever clashing with the slow speed dial. For what it is worth, the end of the self timer lever has 4 rings on it. The book by Lars also illustrates early experiments with bayonet mounts and wind on levers during the 1930s.

William

Edited November 20, 2018 by willeica

[harryzet]

interesting, that leica commissioned a self timer that looked like the leaning tower of pisa...

Edited November 20, 2018 by harryzet

[willeica]

3 minutes ago, harryzet said:

interesting, that leica commissioned a self timer that looked like the leaning tower of pisa...

In the book, mentioned above, it is almost horizontal, but it is clear that it has to pushed down to operate and then it comes back up to horizontal when it finishes its travel.

William