Open Letter to Leica in regards to the M10-D

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Dear Leica,

I bought a couple of items this week that were out of the normal needs in the weekly shopping list, one was replacement four burner gas hob, ( plaque de cuisson here in France ) to replace a fifteen year old one that was going to cost more than half the cost of a new one to repair just two of the dying control knobs and the other “item” was a Leica M10-D that I had managed to raise the funds to buy by selling off some little used photography and film gear. The M10-D was my treat to myself having almost bought the M262-D a year or so back, but the M10-D’s feature list and slimmer size made me happy that I waited.

 

The De Dietrich "plaque de cuisson" came with a Quick Start Guide and a detailed 28 page manual in a number of languages two of which may prove to be useful, plus a installation plan/diagram and a parts list all of which I am sure will be very handy to have when I start to install it tomorrow, the Leica came with a flimsy multi-folded single sheet of paper that was also called a Quick-Start Guide, but there was nothing else in the now ridiculous to my mind origami chest of drawers, ( Commode / French ), that even resembled a manual for this new camera. 

 

Sure there is a nice booklet that tells me in more languages than the De Dietrich paperwork offered that the camera has a warranty, great but I actually knew that. There’s also a three month Adobe subscription offer that is of no use to me at all, but it is a nice booklet, plus there’s a nicely presented booklet offer to LFI for a year. But damn all useful information on the operation of this €8000 camera other than the said Quick Start Guide.

Following that guide, such as it is, wasn’t too easily either even for a camera that’s purposely devoid of an LCD screen and the buttons of it’s M10 sibling, it’s woeful in fact. 

For instance the thumbwheel that many of us are now well familiar with on our M240’s through the M10’s has one of it’s only three functions listed as: “For menu item/function selection”…..Where? How? I thought you could not access a menu on the M10-D other than scrolling through the Foto’s App’ when that’s connected via wifi, did I miss something here? If I did that’s all the reference to it I can see in the guide, no other clues.

The “Function” button, number 1 in the guide, says "Press and hold ( 12 s ), until you get to “Settings”"……WHAT settings? and where can you see or access them, does anyone know? Does this button do anything else? You can change the internal clock with it, but anything else, any other "Settings"? Not a clue.

 

With every Leica I have bought new since the late 1960’s there been an included, detailed manual including the recent years digital M8’s, M9’s MM’s, M240’s the M10’s and the Q too, a number of the manuals I still have here, at least for the cameras I still own, and yes bucking the male trend I do sometimes read them……..But what Leica packed with the M10-D is just ridiculous and even I who have owned M’s for nearly fifty years find that I am floundering around with dire lack of any clear information for this new camera, i.e.: a decent manual would help. It’s ridiculous and already only a few days into ownership of the M10-D I’ve a list of questions that I know I’m going to have to throw out to Forum members for hints as to how, what and why.

 

Do I like this camera so far, a few days into it?….Well yes I think it’s a “keeper” because just the handling is so nice despite some grumbles that I do have with the way it’s been designed and how it operates, but it’s still very early days and I am quite sure this camera will grow on me much the same as the Q did when I got one of the first of those to come out, ( still have it ). However it really pisses me off that Leica have skimped so much in this way, there's no manual, it's just a skimpy one sheet Quick Start Guide and that's all. It’s almost an insult for a camera of this cost. It would help if there was a better, clearer explanation to the M10-D’s functions many of which are new to the range, like perhaps a real manual? At the very least Leica should address this, I hope they do somehow.

[ramarren]

Your post gave me cause for a little chuckle.. I like nice, printed documentation too. I read all the documentation for every camera I have, cover to cover. However, for the life of me, I couldn't remember whether or not either my M-D typ 262 or my CL came with a printed manual, although I've referenced and read both full manuals through several times. 

I checked in the boxes: The M-D does have a full printed manual, as well as a Quick-Start guide; the CL does not, only a Quick-Start guide. 

The full instruction manual for either camera is available as a downloadable PDF from http://us.leica-camera.com/Service-Support/Support/Downloads ... The M10-D full instruction manual, in English language, is available at http://us.leica-camera.com/content/download/153211/2844725/version/1/file/EN_M10-D.pdf .

This is the modern way, with less paper waste, to provide instruction manuals. There are services that will pretty print and bind the PDF for you. But I think the day of a pretty printed manual in every box is moving into the past. More's the pity, but I can't cry too much about it since I haven't used one in a half a decade.

Edited November 10, 2018 by ramarren

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[earleygallery]

Digital age, digital camera, digital manuals. 

If you’d searched the forum first you’d have found another thread by a similarly disgruntled purchaser.

If you want a hard copy manual and don’t want to print out the online manual Leica will post one to you if you ask (nicely).

[jkcampbell2]

You can always download the PDF to your phone too. Cheers, jc

[scott kirkpatrick]

The quick start guide is actually pretty good, and if you get in the spirit of minimalism -- put it away and just use the camera the way it comes -- you should be very pleased with your purchase.  But you are right that the quick start guide (and also the pdf online manual) hints at a few things that haven't been released in the wild just yet. The guide makes it seem that the thumb wheel with the help of the top panel function button would let you scroll through all the buried M10-P menus.  My hunch is that this is what the group doing the -D camera and its firmware hoped to do (sort of an extension of the M-D's stand-alone approach, but FOTOS came along so quickly that they were saved from having to actually do it.  The full PDF manual lists for many of the controllable items that they can be managed through the app.  But it doesn't say how.  Some  important ones are already working in 1.0.1 (iOS) and 1.0.2 (Android) versions of FOTOS.

[TomB_tx]

While I understand the pervasive use of the Internet and electronic documentation, which is likely the preferred method for today’s virtual generation (who may see books as a useless anachronism) - I agree with the OP that the customer base most likely to buy Leica’s more exclusive offerings should expect the type of printed manuals and documentation Leitz and Leica have traditionally included.

That’s especially true of a model without a screen, which appeals to the film generation. The M10 D appealed to me, but the stress on phone apps and WiFi, as well as the need to download essential documentation means I won’t bother with it.

[mdemeyer]

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The problem with paper manuals is that, when you upgrade the firmware, the paper manual is out of date.  True for all “software defined” products. 

So, the internet is your friend.

[silverchrome]

1 hour ago, mdemeyer said:

The problem with paper manuals is that, when you upgrade the firmware, the paper manual is out of date.  True for all “software defined” products. 

So, the internet is your friend.

This argument might work for companies that constantly add new features to their products/firmware, but how often does Leica actually add new features to their firmware?  And when they do, is it so different that the manual becomes out of date? 

I don't think so.

[scott kirkpatrick]

How often does Leica update its electronic copies of the manual?  It hasn't done so for the SL, which is up to version 3 of the firmware.

[LocalHero1953]

I can't remember using the manual for the M9 and M240 when I bought them. They were pretty much intuitive.
I used the pdf version of the manual for the SL when I got stuck accidentally switching to video - that was the only time. Custom button assignment and everything else was intuitive from the menus.
I used the TL2 and CL pdf manuals quite a bit at the start to sort out dial options and TL2 touch operations.
But any paper manuals I have are just a waste of space. I need them, if at all, for a day or so.
If the M10-D needs a manual (which I suspect it does, given the vital role of wifi and smartphone apps) then it has clearly drifted a long way from the concept of the previous MD: a camera stripped down to its essentials.

[mdemeyer]

9 hours ago, silverchrome said:

This argument might work for companies that constantly add new features to their products/firmware, but how often does Leica actually add new features to their firmware?  And when they do, is it so different that the manual becomes out of date? 

I don't think so.

With the M-D, which is closely tied to the mobile phone app, it seems the (overall) function and experience is evolving rapidly, no?   Not saying Leica is doing a good job keeping up (Fuji seems much better in that regard, both adding features and updating docs) but I don’t think you can say the M-D, or any other hybrid camera/app system, is likely to remain static...

Edited November 11, 2018 by mdemeyer

[papimuzo]

I am in a mixed feel here. Yes, a little bit desappointed to not having the complete manual, right out of the box. But checking the boxes, neither my M-D262 neither the Cl had them too.
On the other side, well before buying the M10-D, I downloaded its manual, having the pleasure to anticipate actions, like a child before Xmas.
Then, on first page on the leaflet simplified starting guide, I got the possibility to get (for free and with the desired langage, even mine French..😊) the full manual, given the serial number of the camera.
I have to say, for honesty,  that for since five days now  I'm using the M10-D without need of the manual..

Ramarren gave the URLs for help in a post above.

Edited November 11, 2018 by papimuzo
correction

[Leicaiste]

As soon as I receive a new camera, I go to the maker’s website and download the instruction manual and save it in the Books app on my iPhone. 

And the paper version stay in the box. 

I don’t see the point of a Leica’s instruction manual larger than the camera itself. 

[M11 for me]

I have the electronic user manual always on my mobile phone so that I could look up something if needed whereas the printed booklet would not be at hand normally. For that reason I prefer the electronic version. You have to know that I also read daily newspapers on the iPad and got fully used to this. So I am not so much the type that needs physical paper. Yes people differ but the electronic way is the future way. And Leica can still send out physical manuals for the ones who need one. 

And by the way: Your very nice letter to Leica is so long that I doubt if they got the message. To read it carefully and then to answer it will take them about 45 valuable minutes for a matter that they know all in detail for a long time already. All the camera providers do the same. Yes they all do it. And most customers are very happy as firmware will change anyway. No need for paper in our firmware times. And I said it: The booklet can be ordered. For free.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Alex U.

[silverchrome]

On 11/11/2018 at 12:51 PM, mdemeyer said:

With the M-D, which is closely tied to the mobile phone app, it seems the (overall) function and experience is evolving rapidly, no?   Not saying Leica is doing a good job keeping up (Fuji seems much better in that regard, both adding features and updating docs) but I don’t think you can say the M-D, or any other hybrid camera/app system, is likely to remain static...

No, sorry.  Other companies perhaps but not Leica.

M cameras aren't feature laden to begin with, so to suggest that Leica would suddenly release a ton of features after the release of a product, so as to render the original manual out of date, is not only unlikely but nonsensical.

More so in the case of the MD, which is marketed on the basis that it lacks features. 

[luigi bertolotti]

It's the "green goal" of any Corporation nowadays : my recent (2017) Volvo XC70 hasn't the good printed user manual that had on my former brother model (V70) : of course… it's downoadable and even accessible through the Navigator…  , and frankly I don't like this absence ("browsing" while on a car isn't so easy)… but that's the trend, full stop.

 

[evikne]

Before I purchased my M10 I downloaded the PDF manual and studied it. If I have needed to check something later, I’ve just looked in the PDF that I’ve synced  to my mobile phone. I have never felt any need to look in the printed manual. Don’t even know if I got one.

[mdemeyer]

2 hours ago, silverchrome said:

No, sorry.  Other companies perhaps but not Leica.

M cameras aren't feature laden to begin with, so to suggest that Leica would suddenly release a ton of features after the release of a product, so as to render the original manual out of date, is not only unlikely but nonsensical.

More so in the case of the MD, which is marketed on the basis that it lacks features. 

Depends on how you think of the camera.  If only the camera, I agree.  If you include the app as part of the “camera system”, they are already showing a rapid increase in features with app updates. 

[scott kirkpatrick]

3 hours ago, silverchrome said:

No, sorry.  Other companies perhaps but not Leica.

M cameras aren't feature laden to begin with, so to suggest that Leica would suddenly release a ton of features after the release of a product, so as to render the original manual out of date, is not only unlikely but nonsensical.

More so in the case of the MD, which is marketed on the basis that it lacks features. 

It doesn't take "a ton of features" to render an online manual out of date, just the one I'm trying to puzzle out.  And that happens to Leica (e.g. firmware release 3 for the SL) just as it does to other companies that make consumer products.  In Leica's case there have been manuals released with errors that have never been fixed in the course of subsequent updates.  I don't think the pubs get very high priority.

Edited November 13, 2018 by scott kirkpatrick

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[pgk]

On 11 November 2018 at 7:48 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

If the M10-D needs a manual (which I suspect it does, given the vital role of wifi and smartphone apps) then it has clearly drifted a long way from the concept of the previous MD: a camera stripped down to its essentials.

Perhaps a profusely illustrated calfskin bound volume would be appropriate to a Leica rangefinder camera? No, not really; we live in the age of pdf instruction manuals. Leica is in line with all other digital camera suppliers excepting of course, that its shouldn't really need one if it really is stripped down to its essentials. The concept is there, but execution it would appear, is not quite there yet.