50mm Lenses so much choice for my new best focal length

[Coppereye1960]

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I shot with Canon 5Ds until about 3 years ago when I went for a dalliance with Fuji then let my heart take over and invested heavily in the Leica M series.  My first lens was the Summicron 50mm an ex demo but mint condition from Classic Cameras in London.  Before this my goto focal length was between 80mm and 200mm with a canon 85mm 1.8 my favourite (there is a faster 85mm but the difference in IQ is not worth the extra money).  My second lens was the Leica 90mm Summicron APO - obviously going to be my favourite lens...... errr no I have used it a couple of times on Weddings but seem to go back to 50mm or the 28mm of the Q.  I have started to collect 50mm lenses and I have:

50mm Summicron f2

50mm Summilux f1.4

50mm Elmar f3.5 Collapsible

50mm 7Artisans f1.1 <-----------------dirt cheap but quite a character

I'm at the point where perhaps I need to trim the number of 50mm's I have.  I have an M10, Monochrom (CCD version) and M3 and can't use all three at the same time (I've tried).  I like the Summilux and will keep that and then collapsible Elmar on the M3 or Monochrom renders character images.  

I have a couple of options for my main 50mm which is the 50mm Summicron APO or the 50 Noctilux.  So I think the Summicron f2 will need to go and probably the 7Artisans.  I could take the 90mm out of the mix as I have an S-E with a 120mm lens and its not a lens I've used much.

Has anyone used both the Summicron APO and Noctilux?  As I like shooting in low light does the Noctilux  have the edge or for my portrait work would the summicron APO be better.  

I'm driving myself to distraction over this.  I have found that Leica owners are constructive and less likely to threaten violence if someone has an opposite opinion.  

 

Paul

[SiggiGun]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Coppereye1960:

I shot with Canon 5Ds until about 3 years ago when I went for a dalliance with Fuji then let my heart take over and invested heavily in the Leica M series.  My first lens was the Summicron 50mm an ex demo but mint condition from Classic Cameras in London.  Before this my goto focal length was between 80mm and 200mm with a canon 85mm 1.8 my favourite (there is a faster 85mm but the difference in IQ is not worth the extra money).  My second lens was the Leica 90mm Summicron APO - obviously going to be my favourite lens...... errr no I have used it a couple of times on Weddings but seem to go back to 50mm or the 28mm of the Q.  I have started to collect 50mm lenses and I have:

50mm Summicron f2

50mm Summilux f1.4

50mm Elmar f3.5 Collapsible

50mm 7Artisans f1.1 <-----------------dirt cheap but quite a character

I'm at the point where perhaps I need to trim the number of 50mm's I have.  I have an M10, Monochrom (CCD version) and M3 and can't use all three at the same time (I've tried).  I like the Summilux and will keep that and then collapsible Elmar on the M3 or Monochrom renders character images.  

I have a couple of options for my main 50mm which is the 50mm Summicron APO or the 50 Noctilux.  So I think the Summicron f2 will need to go and probably the 7Artisans.  I could take the 90mm out of the mix as I have an S-E with a 120mm lens and its not a lens I've used much.

Has anyone used both the Summicron APO and Noctilux?  As I like shooting in low light does the Noctilux  have the edge or for my portrait work would the summicron APO be better.  

I'm driving myself to distraction over this.  I have found that Leica owners are constructive and less likely to threaten violence if someone has an opposite opinion.  

 

Paul

Hi Paul

I use the Apo and the Noctilux. Both lenses are very different in caracter (rendering), size and mass. For wedding I use the Noctilux for his unique caracter. The APo is a very good lens, especially at stop 2.0 but the "visible" difference to a classic Cron is not as big if no extrem crop is asked. If in 5 years all cameras will be equipped with 50Mpix or +  it will be different. I think you should consider also the 2 Zeiss lenses: Planar (general purpose) and Sonnar (portrait/wedding).

 

Sonnar > https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/482swx
Planar > https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdUvu1f
Noctilux > https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/Xt46D1
Apo-Summicron > https://flic.kr/s/aHsmePPd8i

 

 

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[douglas fry]

You have an agony of riches there Paul, personally I shoot weddings with an M10 and Noctilux all day, (I have a M240 with a 35mm and a 21 in my pocket)

The Noctilux quality is sublime especially useful now in the winter (darker) months, and after a while I dont find focussing an issue (I wear glasses too)

With regard to the 50mm APO for portraits, Im not so keen, its great for landscapes or similar, but I think portraits need a little 'character' so the Summilux or Noctilux suit that genre better (in my view)

This shot was taken under pretty extreme conditions, it was SOOOOO dark, but I could focus pretty easily with a rangefinder, where I think an autofocus camera would have struggled.

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[Fedro]

With 50s it is justifiable to have more than one, I always think: one light/slower/daytime/outdoors and another faster/low light/indoors/portraits

Then it comes down to budget and need (+ GAS in many cases). There is nothing wrong with the summilux ASPH (great lens) and Cron (or Elmar) you already have

If you have the need to have the APO and/or the Nocti, that would of course be also a great set up albeit pricier. You could also match the old Nocti with the APO or the current nocti with any slower lens (including the cron and Elmar you already have)

So many 50s so little time ...

[TomB_tx]

Since you are coming from dSLRs you may not notice the size and weight much, but that is sure a major concern for me in choosing lenses. I've never owned a Noctilux, but handling an M with one I'll never buy it. In fact I find the Summilux asph too big for my liking.

I have more than ten different 50s for Leica, and have always found the Summicron ideal for almost everything. As someone else mentioned, the "normal" Summicron is so good I wouldn't bother with the APO version. With my M10 and its high ISO the 2.5 Summarit is now my favorite 50 for its size and handling, which match the 2.5 35 version which is my main lens on the M10. Again, size, weight, and handling with good image quality are my main criteria.

I also have Zeiss Planar and a few Voigtlander 50s, and sometimes I'll pick the Planar for its snap and impact, but for most of my work any of these 50s will do fine, so it's mainly what feels best in use.

On film with low ISO I would use a Summilux (or Voigtander 1.5) more in low light, but with digital I see no need. I also love to dig out an ltm model and shoot available light with a 3.5 Elmar and ISO 125 film to remind me more modern and fancier equipment isn't really necessary for good results.

[epand56]

Paul, I have the same three 50s you have, Summicron, Summilux Asph. and Elmar collapsible. 
In the end I use the Lux most of the time on my M 240. I prefer the Lux look much more than that of the Noctilux.
This is because I do not like pictures looking too much strange and to me the Nocti is really too much "strange". And so huge and heavy.

The 50 Summicron is small and maybe the best 50 ever, so it's also a keeper to me.

And the Elmar as well, since it has a GREAT character.

[Coppereye1960]

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5 hours ago, douglas fry said:

You have an agony of riches there Paul, personally I shoot weddings with an M10 and Noctilux all day, (I have a M240 with a 35mm and a 21 in my pocket)

I shot my last wedding with the 240 and Summilux 50mm and the Q.  I’ve just picked up a 21mm and it’s beautiful.

I’ve read to all the replies.  Thank you for your help.  I think that you all have made the arguements I have in my head.  

I came from DSLR via Fuji XT which are tiny then to the M240 which has a good weight to it especially with the 90mm Summicron.  I find the M10 so much lighter and to have everything at my fingertips I love.  

Thinking about it the definite keepers are the Summilux ( it took me a while to get used to this lens ) and the 50mm collapsible because it has such a character.  I have a Monochrom and the combination is great.

Tbere’s quirky and there’s the 7Artisans - it is a character lens but maybe too much character.  It seems very good at creating soft and dreamy portraits.  So this is going!

Im going to keep the Summicron until I can find a good Noctilux ( and the funds for one ) Low Light is really important to my work.  

Thank you all so much

 

 

 

[douglas fry]

good points and interesting reading, I have the summilux and Nocti, but prefer to shoot with the same lens all the time, so I hope to get muscle memory on focussing distances etc familiar handling day in day out etc

[Coppereye1960]

I spent a long time getting used to the Summilux but it was worth the perseverance. I did the same with the Q and am doing it now with the M10

I always remember a comment about David Beckham - “He was always first at the training ground and the last to leave.  He never believed in training during a match”. That has stuck with me always.  

[Stein K S]

If 50mm is the issue, I think the Elmar-M should be part of your kit. Just for the sake of it... small, nice rendering and really cheap (all compared)... even if you also have the older 3,5 😉

Edited November 12, 2018 by Stein K S

[colonel]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:11 AM, Coppereye1960 said:

I have started to collect 50mm lenses and I have: .....

........  

I'm driving myself to distraction over this.  I have found that Leica owners are constructive and less likely to threaten violence if someone has an opposite opinion.  

Paul

Try the Voigtlander 50mm f1.2  VM otherwise I'll beat you

 

[colonel]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:22 AM, SiggiGun said:

Hi Paul

I use the Apo and the Noctilux. Both lenses are very different in caracter (rendering), size and mass. For wedding I use the Noctilux for his unique caracter. The APo is a very good lens, especially at stop 2.0 but the "visible" difference to a classic Cron is not as big if no extrem crop is asked. If in 5 years all cameras will be equipped with 50Mpix or +  it will be different. I think you should consider also the 2 Zeiss lenses: Planar (general purpose) and Sonnar (portrait/wedding).

 

Sonnar > https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/482swx
Planar > https://flic.kr/s/aHsmdUvu1f
Noctilux > https://www.flickr.com/gp/siggigun/Xt46D1
Apo-Summicron > https://flic.kr/s/aHsmePPd8i

 

 

I think your just sealed a Noctilux  in my future. The APO is just too esoteric for me!

[Coppereye1960]

17 minutes ago, colonel said:

Try the Voigtlander 50mm f1.2  VM otherwise I'll beat you

 

I actually use the 35mm version of this lens and love it.  

 

[Coppereye1960]

On 11/12/2018 at 5:13 PM, Stein K S said:

If 50mm is the issue, I think the Elmar-M should be part of your kit. Just for the sake of it... small, nice rendering and really cheap (all compared)... even if you also have the older 3,5 😉

I love th 3.5 Elmar-M which sits mainly on my M3 or on my Monochrom - great B+W images using this lens.

[Coppereye1960]

Thank you again for your comments - A couple of you have mentioned the rendition of the Noctilux.  I’m not looking for a lens that is too perfect,  too clean which I get the impression the Summicron APO is.  Low light and a unique look is what I am going for so am now hunting for that rare beast a reasonable priced Noctilux from someone who will give me the real used price for my Summicron and the lens has only been taken out the box once.  

Do so I get these from the place that sells Uni lens or do I need to be more realistic

P

[evikne]

My most used lens is a 50mm Noctilux f/1.0 because I love the bokeh and dreamy look. But sometimes I want a smaller lens and a shorter focusing distance, therefore I also have a 50mm Summilux ASPH. But I actually don't need the extreme sharpness and modern rendering from this lens. So I have been thinking lately that I might would have been better served with a pre-ASPH v3.

[LichtUndDunkelheit]

1 hour ago, Coppereye1960 said:

I actually use the 35mm version of this lens and love it. 

This statement makes no sense whatsoever. You cannot replicate a lens at a different focal length. You have to create a completely different formula each time you create a lens at a different focal length. Its not like a car that can have two motors and one is a bit stronger by adding more cylinders or something like that.

The 35mm and 50mm and of course also the 40mm are different lenses, even if they share the same company and maximum aperture. For example neither the 35/1.2 nor the 40/1.2 have this unique Bokeh of the 50/1.2.

 

[colonel]

1 hour ago, LichtUndDunkelheit said:

This statement makes no sense whatsoever. You cannot replicate a lens at a different focal length. You have to create a completely different formula each time you create a lens at a different focal length. Its not like a car that can have two motors and one is a bit stronger by adding more cylinders or something like that.

The 35mm and 50mm and of course also the 40mm are different lenses, even if they share the same company and maximum aperture. For example neither the 35/1.2 nor the 40/1.2 have this unique Bokeh of the 50/1.2.

 

true, but on the other land it gives an indicated of the quality standards of the company and predilection of draw, tint, contrast and other preferences in the design process

Edited November 15, 2018 by colonel

[Ko.Fe.]

Lux and Elmar is the best set of 50 I could imagine. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Simone_DF]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:11 AM, Coppereye1960 said:

I'm at the point where perhaps I need to trim the number of 50mm's I have.  

Why?

There's no such thing as enough 50mms

I'd keep the Summilux as my main and pair it either with the 7A or with a Zeiss Sonnar.

As suggested above you could also consider the new Voigtlander 1.2.