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Telyt 200mm f4.5 - detachable head or not??


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The thin knurled ring just above the focusing tube is part of the lens head.  I'd be very interested if there were a Novoflex adapter for this lens head.  I have never seen Novoflex literature which lists such an adapter.  But they may have well made one.  We fondly call Leitz the "Lord of the Rings", but Novoflex and Kilfitt are contenders for the title too.

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I bought the f4.5 version recently, from 1935 the first year of production.

the focussing section screws off and as stated earlier it is still just as long as the rear element is close the the back of the whole lens.

you can screw off the back lens block, which gives you access to two internal glass surfaces to clean, be careful not to touch the diaphragm, have it fully open to clean the glass surface next to it.

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Nothing better that a rainy Satueday morning for a test session at close distances B):

The two Telyts 200 (the f 4,5 is 898.608, the f4 1.888.491) , both Wide Open, and the ApoTelyt 180 at f4 (a lens notoriously optimized for FAR distances); Image width 5,5 cm

The OOC jpgs do evidence significant differences (light was even in the 3 pics) : focus critical, and made 3 pics with small focus adjustments, choosing the best focus on the "Mixture" word.

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Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Another image with less color area, a bit bigger enlargment (image width 4,8 cm)

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Luigi, 

Is that a coated or uncoated Telyt 200/4.5? It does look like a lens designed for black and white. I came to the same conclusions with the 400 and 560 f5.6 (coated) Telyt lenses I had, which were both pretty miserable other than at the dead centre of the image, when used for colour. I spent ages cleaning the elements meticulously, with zero noticeable improvement. 

Am I correct that the Telyt 200/f4 is Visoflex II/III mount and there is no short focusing mount for the Visoflex 1/PLOOT or does the lens use a OUBIO on the Viso II/III to make up the difference? 

Wilson

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2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

Luigi, 

Is that a coated or uncoated Telyt 200/4.5? It does look like a lens designed for black and white. I came to the same conclusions with the 400 and 560 f5.6 (coated) Telyt lenses I had, which were both pretty miserable other than at the dead centre of the image, when used for colour. I spent ages cleaning the elements meticulously, with zero noticeable improvement. 

Am I correct that the Telyt 200/f4 is Visoflex II/III mount and there is no short focusing mount for the Visoflex 1/PLOOT or does the lens use a OUBIO on the Viso II/III to make up the difference? 

Wilson

My Telyt 20cm 4,5 is coated (slightly bluish hue) , which could be natural given its age (1951) , but indeed, even at normal distances, isn't a lens providing "brilliant" colors.

The Telyt 200 f4, afaik, was made only in M39/Viso I Mount , also in the last "all black" items, needing the usual OUBIO on Viso II/III : I am sure to have seen some items with BM for Viso II/III, (even for sale, iirc) but were probably prototypes : Lager displays # 1.612.035 - older than mine - with BM VisoII Mount… and also # 1.559.095 with BM rangefinder coupled (prototype at Leitz Museum)

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Rainy here all day as well (after very long months of drought), so I didn't look for something more appealing than a brick wall with a distance of approx. 20m. Though there was enough daylight to correct my assumption that my 1:4.5 Telyt with No. 1366532  was not coated: now I see the blueish tint which I did not discover under artificial light. The other correction of my previous assumptions came from focus peaking with Liveview. If lenses have a considerable difference of contrast you see it immediately with focus peaking: the red marks to indicate maximum focus are usually much less defined if one lens is less contrasty than the other. With the 1:4.5 and the 1:4-Versions of the 200mm Telyt I could not see any difference in focus peaking - well, the older version was 1/2 stop less opened. So I'd say the 1:4/200 Telyt fully opened has the same contrast as the 1:4.5/200 at maximal opening. Both examples with M10.

First 1:4/200 at f/4:

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Now 1:4.5/200 at f/4.5:

 

I'd say the differences are negligible.

 

 

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I suppose what this all demonstrates is sample variation between older Leica lenses. In reality this continued up to relatively recently with the 35 ASPH Summilux being the most notable example. These lenses varied from unusable to quite good. I tried 9 different 35 ASPH Summiluxes before I found one I was happy with. I must have been a pain to the dealers. When I sent it for coding in 2007, (it was made in September  2006, just before coding was introduced) I mentioned that it seemed to aperture shift only minimally. This was just after an LFI article which explained why focus shift was inevitable with this lens. Leica agreed that the focus shift was minimal, said I was extraordinarily lucky and to hold on this lens very firmly. Interestingly my searches pointed out that the chrome/brass lenses were noticeably better on average than the black/light alloy versions. The chrome housings were contracted out, whereas the alloy ones were made in house in Portugal. 

Wilson

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Well, unfortunately I have only one single example each of the 1:4.5 and the 1:4 200 Telyt, so I can't tell anything about sample variation. And fortunately none of them was made in chrome so I do not know how the material of the housing might influence spherical and chromatic aberrations, coma and all this stuff from physical optics. Just some more examples from both lenses with better lighting than yesterday:

Telyt 1:4.5/20cm at f/8:

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Telyt 1:4/200 at f/8:

 

Edited by UliWer
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Crop from from both lenses fully opened, first 1:4.5/20 cm at 1:4.5, second 1:2/200mm at 1:4

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Just two other examples from 1:45/20cm at f/4.5:

 

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Unfortunately the Apo-Telyt, Apo-Elmarit, and Apo-Summicron designs (focal lengths longer than 135mm) were only offered for Leica R users.  Oddly the end of the line for Visoflex Telyts (400mm f5.6, 560mm f5.6, 400mm f6.8, 560m f6.8 and 800mm f6.3) were all simple achromats or an achromat variant.  The great Apo-Telyt-R 180mm f3.4 was introduced in 1975, eight years before the last Visoflex III was sold.   A Visoflex version was not to be.

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Uli, many thanks for your visual comparisons between the 200 f4 & 4.5

I've looked at two 200 f4's here in Australia over the past month & both unfortunately have had fungal contamination

I eventually opted for a 1955 f4.5 (glass in good condition except for "dust") that came with a bonus Visoflex II setup - in transit (from the states) at this stage

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