romualdo Posted November 6, 2018 Share #1 Posted November 6, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does the earlier Telyt 200 (f4.5) have a detachable head that can screw into a bellows unit & be used as a macro? (as in the f4 version). I didn't think so (I don't have this lens) - Laney 2nd edn, p 274 does not mention this but Leica WIKI claims that the lens head screws into a PLOOT (TOOLP code for both) https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/F_%3D_20_cm_1:4.5_Telyt whereas Laney states that the whole lens screws into the PLOOT to make a TOOLP. I'd say the WIKI claim is an error - I stand corrected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 6, 2018 Posted November 6, 2018 Hi romualdo, Take a look here Telyt 200mm f4.5 - detachable head or not??. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted November 6, 2018 Share #2 Posted November 6, 2018 Will try tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zteil Posted November 6, 2018 Share #3 Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) Laney is right, in in the Wiki is an error. I makes no sin to screw the lenshead directly in a PLOOT ore anywhere as it is build for the use with Ploot/Viso including its tube. Yes it is detachable. But for use as a macrolens I wouldt leave it with its focusingtube. You can use it with or without Viso/Ploot, with or without bellows I or II, with or without additional extensionrings. I believe, that there is no adaptor to the bellows for the head and its special thread (40mm??). Edited November 6, 2018 by zteil 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted November 6, 2018 Share #4 Posted November 6, 2018 It seems odd that the "Lord of the Rings" would not have made an adapter for the 200m f4.5 lens head on the Bellows units. But I also don't think there is one. A good machinist, such as SK Grimes, could easily make one. SK Grimes adapter prices seem to be in the $75 to $100 range for adapters. The other option is the Leitz adapter for the 200mm f4.5 head with the Focorapid system (code 14113). 14113 will then thread into the 16598 adapter which is the adapter for the 200mm f4.0 lens head on the Bellows. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 6, 2018 Share #5 Posted November 6, 2018 To be honest, I don't think it makes much sense to shorten the lens by unscrewing the lenshead and than make it longer again by the bellows. Most of the bellows's extension will be lost to compensate for the missing shaft of the lens, and only if the bellows is stretched a lot you gain some possibility for close-ups. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted November 6, 2018 Share #6 Posted November 6, 2018 The bellows with only the lens head does provide for continuous infinity to close-up focus which may have been attractive for some users before SLRs started offering continuous focus macro-lenses. This was back in the day when Novoflex's first 40cm f5.6 lens was only available with a bellows for focus; the Follow Focus grip came later. Canon's MB-1 and MB-2 lenses (300mm to 1000mm) were also only bellows focus, with the exception of the first version Canon 400mm f4.5 lens. Kilfitt had variable extension built into some of its adapters (codes TUL & TUM) usable all the way up to their 600mm. Kilfitt also offered their 90mm f2.8 lens with very long extension built into the focusing mount; this lens which used an aspherical element retains cult status to this day. The 200mm f4.0 Telyt lens head / design was better optimized for bellows use, giving infinity to 42" focusing with Bellows II (3" x 4.5" image size, or 1/3 reproduction factor). I moved on from the Visoflex system long ago. But I can also understand why a lot of folks still love using the reflex housings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zteil Posted November 6, 2018 Share #7 Posted November 6, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) vor 2 Stunden schrieb zeitz: adapter for the 200mm f4.5 head with the Focorapid system (code 14113). Thanks for figuring out. Did not know this adapter. Have to search now to complete my rings-of-the-lord-collection. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted November 6, 2018 Share #8 Posted November 6, 2018 The heart of the system is the Focorapid focusing mount. You hold the thing in the palm of your hand and focus with your thumb. I find the Focorapid very enjoyable to use. There are a number of associated adapter rings for lenses 135mm to 400mm f5.0. Usually when you find a system for sale, it has all the rings included, except for the 400mm f5.0 ring. Search on Focorapid to find previous threads on this forum. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 6, 2018 Share #9 Posted November 6, 2018 I was wrong assuming that screwing off the shaft of the 1:4.5 Telyt would shorten it too much so that you would have to compensate with a lot of bellows extension to get to its normal range. The lenses rear element is very close to the rear end of the shaft. So it doesn‘t make much difference if you leave the shaft on or not. You can attach the whole lens with an LTM-Adapter to the 16596 on the Bellows II. If you use a camera with Liveview you can leave out the Viso housing and fix the Bellows with an Oufro/16469 on the camera - and use the whole device from infinity to ca. 75cm. (Never fix the bellows directly to the camera! You won‘t get to the release button to loosen it!) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 6, 2018 Share #10 Posted November 6, 2018 M10+16469+Bellows II+16596+LTM-Adapter+Telyt 1:4.5/20cm: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Same with Telyt 1:4/200mm: Both at f/11; 75cm between lens front and object. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Same with Telyt 1:4/200mm: Both at f/11; 75cm between lens front and object. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/291213-telyt-200mm-f45-detachable-head-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=3626736'>More sharing options...
zeitz Posted November 6, 2018 Share #11 Posted November 6, 2018 Well done, Uli. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share #12 Posted November 7, 2018 Uli, hard to tell the difference between the two pics - both impressive my potential combination M240 + Visoflex II (without viewer) + Bellows II + "Modified" 16598 + full Lens (Telyt 200 f4.5) I ended up with a "frankenstein" 16598 when I purchased a variety of leica bits & pieces earlier this year - it appears to be modified so LTM lenses can be mounted directly onto the Bellows II (see pics) Still looking for an OUFRO (16469) for a reasonable price - ebay prices are way too high for me for this item - it's just an extension ring Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/291213-telyt-200mm-f45-detachable-head-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=3626964'>More sharing options...
romualdo Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share #13 Posted November 7, 2018 13 hours ago, zteil said: Laney is right, in in the Wiki is an error. I makes no sin to screw the lenshead directly in a PLOOT ore anywhere as it is build for the use with Ploot/Viso including its tube. Yes it is detachable. But for use as a macrolens I wouldt leave it with its focusingtube. You can use it with or without Viso/Ploot, with or without bellows I or II, with or without additional extensionrings. I believe, that there is no adaptor to the bellows for the head and its special thread (40mm??). By any chance, the head thread wouldn't happen to be a standard LTM lens to camera (39mm)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 7, 2018 Share #14 Posted November 7, 2018 4 hours ago, romualdo said: By any chance, the head thread wouldn't happen to be a standard LTM lens to camera (39mm)? No, it's not. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted November 7, 2018 Share #15 Posted November 7, 2018 16 hours ago, zeitz said: The heart of the system is the Focorapid focusing mount. You hold the thing in the palm of your hand and focus with your thumb. I find the Focorapid very enjoyable to use. There are a number of associated adapter rings for lenses 135mm to 400mm f5.0. Usually when you find a system for sale, it has all the rings included, except for the 400mm f5.0 ring. Search on Focorapid to find previous threads on this forum. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/291213-telyt-200mm-f45-detachable-head-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=3627084'>More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 7, 2018 Share #16 Posted November 7, 2018 vor 14 Stunden schrieb romualdo: ...Still looking for an OUFRO (16469) for a reasonable price - ebay prices are way too high for me for this item - it's just an extension ring... The Oufro (16469) in my combination described above only serves to keep a distance between the camera and the bellows to handle the camera's release butten and to leave out the Visoflex-housing. Only if you shorten the extension of the housing, you can reach infinity with the whole lens on the bellows. If you don't need to go to infinity with your bellows, you can leave the Viso-housing in place and gain even a little bit in close focus range since the extension between camera and lens gets a little bit longer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 7, 2018 Share #17 Posted November 7, 2018 vor 15 Stunden schrieb romualdo: ...hard to tell the difference between the two pics - both impressive Yes, it was a surprise for me that I couldn't see any difference in resolution by both lenses - though perhaps the old saying is right, that all lenses are equal at f/11. Even though my version of the old 1:4.5 -Telyt comes from post-war time (No. 1,3..,...) it seems to be uncoated - at least I do not see anything which I could take for coating. The 1:4-version certainly is coated. Perhaps on next weekend I have time and light to make a comparison under "normal" conditions with larger aperture. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 7, 2018 Share #18 Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) Me too have always observed a not significant difference between my two Telyts 200 … wide open, if I remember well, the 4,5 even performs a bit better (made the test 3 or 4 years ago... M240 new…) maybe it's my items : the 4,5 is coated and very fine, the f4 so/so… and isn't a focal I use often from the acquisition of the AT 180. Btw, Romualdo, if you are in truoble on finding a good OUFRO at the right price, I got a pair of OUFRO clone from a Chinese supplier… good in any respect, a bit heavier than the original... 50 US$ around iirc. Edited November 7, 2018 by luigi bertolotti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted November 9, 2018 Author Share #19 Posted November 9, 2018 On 11/8/2018 at 2:05 AM, UliWer said: Yes, it was a surprise for me that I couldn't see any difference in resolution by both lenses - though perhaps the old saying is right, that all lenses are equal at f/11. Even though my version of the old 1:4.5 -Telyt comes from post-war time (No. 1,3..,...) it seems to be uncoated - at least I do not see anything which I could take for coating. The 1:4-version certainly is coated. Perhaps on next weekend I have time and light to make a comparison under "normal" conditions with larger aperture. Laney states that post war 200 f4.5 Telyts were coated (looks like your lens is a 55/56 model - that's "very post war" !!) That would be good - I'd appreciate a comparison at wider apertures Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 9, 2018 Share #20 Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) I think somewhere in my many bags of odd bits, I have an adapter for this lens head to a Novoflex bellows. I bought a bag of assorted Novoflex adapters including weird things like a double sided male M bayonet - what on earth could that be for? My Telyt is also quite late at 1954 and obviously, coated. Wilson PS Just had a look at my Telyt 200/4.5 (normally sits on a Viso 1 or with OUBIO on Viso II) and it does not want to split at all. Where is it supposed to split? Just in front of the focus ring? Given how far back the final element lies in the body, the 40mm thread must be right at the end of the optical cell carrier tube. W. Edited November 9, 2018 by wlaidlaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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