Morry Posted October 29, 2018 Share #21 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I just think that current M-D is something I will never be able to get back once I sell it. M10-D on the other hand is conceptually more versatile and I can imagine there might be M11-D in future, or otherwise we might see handful number of M10-D to be produced as opposed to very limited run for M-D. While I do have certain respect to M10 chassis with smaller size and quieter shutter, my heart says there is no reason to rush. I can consider additionally getting M10-P though. It makes sense to use it for all the modern functions. The only downside of this potentially perfect combo is that it will eat up everything in my wallet. Edited October 29, 2018 by Morry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Hi Morry, Take a look here Long live the M-D!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted October 29, 2018 Share #22 Posted October 29, 2018 I can’t think why you would sell your M-D for an M10-D, but each to his own I guess. I’m using the original M9 series Monochrom. When I lose it, break it or it just wears out, I will consider replacing it. I don’t have a digital colour M camera (I traded my corroded M9 for an M-A), so the M10-D is of interest. I’m more than a little uncertain about the thumb rest, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 29, 2018 Share #23 Posted October 29, 2018 My M-D typ 262 is mine forever. They can bury me with the darn thing, I like it so much. I've come to terms with the M10-D, which is a totally different camera, now. The utterly minimalistic, no configuration options meme that created the M Edition 60 and subsequently the M-D typ 262 is not the notion of the M10-D at all, as I've written about elsewhere. The M10-D is an M10-P full featured camera which has had the LCD and all the various control buttons needed to manipulate its options off-loaded to a smartphone app, presumably for the sake of improving the ergonomics by gaining back all that empty space on the back of the camera. It will be as easy to hold and use as the M-D, or an M film camera, and you use the app to do all the stuff that the litter of buttons and display do on the standard model. That's how I perceive it now, and I now think I'd prefer it as my 'next M' to the standard M10/M10-P for that ergonomic improvement. The advantage of having the EVF option nets the versatility I need (and that I paid for a CL body to have, after I sold my SL) to do macro and table top work with my R lenses and accessories. Whether I actually buy one or not ... That remains to be seen. And of course the first thing I do, if I do buy one, is remove that silly faux advance lever, or dysfunctional thumb rest, however you choose to consider it. But the M-D stays regardless. I love this camera: it's my all-time favorite M. 7 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 29, 2018 Share #24 Posted October 29, 2018 52 minutes ago, ramarren said: My M-D typ 262 is mine forever. They can bury me with the darn thing, I like it so much. Dear Godfrey: You have said the same in so very many posts that perhaps it should be your sig and tattoo. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morry Posted October 30, 2018 Share #25 Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: I can’t think why you would sell your M-D for an M10-D, but each to his own I guess. I don’t have to sell it but I can’t quite imagine owing both Ds and switching upon occasions. M10 or P may fit mostly for live view and higher ISO though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 30, 2018 Share #26 Posted October 30, 2018 The nice thing, I guess is having the same generation of cameras - M10-P, M10-D & M10-M - so the controls are largely the same, chargers and batteries the same etc. One of the frustrating things for me is if I go away, each camera has a different battery and charger - SL & spare battery, TL & spare battery (charge in camera), Monochrom & 3 spare batteries and M10-D & spare. Each charger is different. PLEASE Leica, at least provide for in camera USB charging ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morry Posted October 30, 2018 Share #27 Posted October 30, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) Also color profiles are different if I use M-D and M10 together. I know but we all go with what we think is enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 31, 2018 Share #28 Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 6:43 PM, IkarusJohn said: The nice thing, I guess is having the same generation of cameras - M10-P, M10-D & M10-M - so the controls are largely the same, chargers and batteries the same etc. One of the frustrating things for me is if I go away, each camera has a different battery and charger - SL & spare battery, TL & spare battery (charge in camera), Monochrom & 3 spare batteries and M10-D & spare. Each charger is different. PLEASE Leica, at least provide for in camera USB charging ... If you're carrying all three cameras when you go away, you're carrying at least 300% of the equipment I carry when I'm traveling. I usually carry one camera and two or three lenses, often just two. With the M-D, because of its very large battery capacity, I carry two batteries. With the CL, because the batteries are pretty inexpensive from third party suppliers, I carry four batteries: they're smaller and lighter too. On travel, all of the chargers I use (Nitecore units) are USB powered, so I minimize on power supplies and cabling with a single 2.1A dual-port USB charger. Although the M10-D and M-D controls are somewhat different, all the important ones that I use most are in the same spots so I don't think I'd have any real difficulties switching between them. I don't change EV comp all that often, and it's not super convenient on either. I don't change ISO all that often, so the odd location on the M10-D won't really affect me much. Aperture, shutter speed, and shutter release are all in the predictable locations, and I usually just turn the camera on with a two minute sleep time out so that will be the same regardless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 31, 2018 Share #29 Posted October 31, 2018 Depends, I guess. Sometimes I’m away for longer, sometimes I drive and most of the time I can’t make up my mind. There’s little point in having the gear if you don’t use it, and you won’t use it if you don’t have it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
designdog Posted November 19, 2018 Share #30 Posted November 19, 2018 Just out of curiosity - and future potential acquiescence to G.A.S. - how do you M-D owners deal with non-Leica lenses? I own the very nice Zeiss 35/1.4 Distagon ZM, for example. On my M9 and M10 I manually set it as a 35 Summilux, but there is no option to do this on either MM-D camera. Of course one could change the lens correction profile in Lightroom, for example. I guess one should also change the exif information, so that Lightroom can register it properly in its database... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted November 19, 2018 Share #31 Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, designdog said: Just out of curiosity - and future potential acquiescence to G.A.S. - how do you M-D owners deal with non-Leica lenses? I own the very nice Zeiss 35/1.4 Distagon ZM, for example. On my M9 and M10 I manually set it as a 35 Summilux, but there is no option to do this on either MM-D camera. Of course one could change the lens correction profile in Lightroom, for example. I guess one should also change the exif information, so that Lightroom can register it properly in its database... Leica M-D or other digital M = same for me. No worry for me of EXIF things since I own/use more non-coded lenses than coded. Some years ago, I did comparisons in results between 6bit-coded/non coded, and had seen very small differences in results. So in my case, it's fine with coded or non coded for my practice. Same lenses used on film Ms and sensor Ms, so no bother with those 6bit coded lenses anymore. I just use them as they are and I don't use LR, so no database, but when you care for database, please code all your lenses to use with M-D. This thread may help... Edited November 19, 2018 by a.noctilux 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentishrev Posted November 19, 2018 Share #32 Posted November 19, 2018 5 hours ago, designdog said: Just out of curiosity - and future potential acquiescence to G.A.S. - how do you M-D owners deal with non-Leica lenses? I own the very nice Zeiss 35/1.4 Distagon ZM, for example. On my M9 and M10 I manually set it as a 35 Summilux, but there is no option to do this on either MM-D camera. Of course one could change the lens correction profile in Lightroom, for example. I guess one should also change the exif information, so that Lightroom can register it properly in its database... I had a similar concern when I moved to M-D but was reassured that the in-camera lens choice was really only about the exif data - I’ve noticed no other difference between coded and non-coded. A further freedom from the data menu - it’s good! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted December 7, 2018 Share #33 Posted December 7, 2018 Hey @ramarren, how’s the Frankendinder on the M-D? I got the WATE and it’s the only way to frame for it on the M60... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 7, 2018 Share #34 Posted December 7, 2018 The Frankenfinder works just fine on the M-D, just like it does on the M4-2 and any other M. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I fit the little Voigtländer 21/25 optical finder and just leave the lens at 21mm, and other times I don't use any finder and just point the camera. After all, a 16mm lens is so wide I'm just not all that concerned with getting exact framing with it ... I shoot loose and crop to suit what I want. — How do I deal with non-Leica lenses? Well, most of the time, I use only coded lenses. When I use non-coded lenses, I just shoot with them and deal with what comes out. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Leica M-D + Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 ISO 320 @ f/8 @ 1/12 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Leica M-D + Color Skopar 28mm f/3.5 ISO 320 @ f/8 @ 1/12 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290828-long-live-the-m-d/?do=findComment&comment=3643222'>More sharing options...
setuporg Posted December 9, 2018 Share #35 Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) Having shot a thousand and a half shots with the M60 and 6 lenses, I now find myself in a paradoxical position where it's hard to justify getting the M10-D when having an M-D/M60 and the M10, as I do. The M60 or M-D satisfies all the true screen-less urges, while the M10 has all the newer features. The M10-D impedes some of them, such as using non-coded lenses and changing setting just becomes torturous as the wifi takes 30 seconds to come up. So it would make sense to get if you have no screen-less Leicas, but if you do, use those for screen-less shooting, truly so, and use the M10 for low-ISO, non-coded lenses, etc. Really, @a.noctilux, I'm afraid there's no reason to have an M-D, M10 (or M10-P), and the M10-D, except for relegating the M-D to the collectible/nostalgic shelf whence you walk it from once a year or so. This is what my Fuji X-Pro2/X100F and Pentax K-3II/ K-1 are doing right now, waiting for a rare walk/niche use (moving targets, once small RAW-shooting single-lens camera travel, etc.). With the M60 I could justify the rarity for non-use and get the M10-D but I just feel M60 is so much true fun I'll have to cancel my BH Photo order for the M10-D placed just before I'd stumbled upon the M60. Sure shots come out blurry or a bit overexposed once in a while just like film used to do years ago and it's totally fun part of the experience. Even the noise at ISO 3200 or higher is a part of the experience, like the film grain. It's hard to imagine having that or M-D and the M10 ever needing the M10-D. Perhaps indeed the most reasonable strategy is waiting for the replacement for M10 itself, and then for its -D, such as the M11-D. Edited December 9, 2018 by setuporg 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 9, 2018 Share #36 Posted December 9, 2018 Setuporg, no need to justify anything for me to buy new gear that I don't need, but want 😇. To do that, I don't deprive myself or my family to live normally. Anyway, in this case of M60, it's something else I can't explain and don't need to do. For sure, I don't need it, having other gears to happily use 😌. So if I have opportunity to buy one M60, I would. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted December 9, 2018 Share #37 Posted December 9, 2018 No worries @a.noctilux, of course I meant logical justification. Even as far as whimsy goes, it seems three M bodies, two which are -D cameras, will relegate one to a collectible status. I'm just trying to brainstorm together and find a reasonable use case scenario. @IkarusJohn sold his -D and is looking to get a new one, and @ramarren is looking for a kind of M10 if I'm not mistaken. I've only had the M10 and now with the M60 I have two bodies and can also use them for two-lens shots, as I find myself constantly changing lenses and also comparing them. E.g., comparing the Summilux 75mm/1.4 to Summicron 75mm/2.0 now becomes easier. Carrying three bodies is probably too much, so no logical justification that way. But of course having multiple bodies and using some of them sometimes is always an option. I'm recently alternating between the X1D, the Ms, and also Pentax K-1 with its Limited lenses for authentic DSLR shooting with fast focus. Still I'd not take more than two M bodies on a walk, and even that will have to be tested as a completely new setup for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 9, 2018 Share #38 Posted December 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, setuporg said: No worries @a.noctilux, of course I meant logical justification. Even as far as whimsy goes, it seems three M bodies, two which are -D cameras, will relegate one to a collectible status. I'm just trying to brainstorm together and find a reasonable use case scenario. @IkarusJohn sold his -D and is looking to get a new one, and @ramarren is looking for a kind of M10 if I'm not mistaken. I've only had the M10 and now with the M60 I have two bodies and can also use them for two-lens shots, as I find myself constantly changing lenses and also comparing them. E.g., comparing the Summilux 75mm/1.4 to Summicron 75mm/2.0 now becomes easier. Carrying three bodies is probably too much, so no logical justification that way. But of course having multiple bodies and using some of them sometimes is always an option. I'm recently alternating between the X1D, the Ms, and also Pentax K-1 with its Limited lenses for authentic DSLR shooting with fast focus. Still I'd not take more than two M bodies on a walk, and even that will have to be tested as a completely new setup for me. I'm actually not looking for anything at present. What I have in cameras is already more than enough... Of course, that doesn't stop me from buying something I like/want if I feel like it, and have the money. My M collection is the M-D and the M4-2, digital and film. I bought the CL after I sold the SL so that I'd have a TTL camera suitable for adapting my R lenses to, for macro and tele photography, and it's proven to do what I want for that very nicely ... and lots more besides. If I feel like buying another camera for those purposes with the full-frame sensor, the M10-D is probably what I'd buy at this point because it is a full-featured M with nearly the same handling as the M-D, although the straight M10-P might actually make more sense for those needs. But all of this is just musing at this point: I'm just not drawn to buying another M at this time and I'm completely happy with how the M-D and CL complement each other. It's difficult not to look at new products and imagine how they would add to my photographic endeavors, but I've long since passed the point where I had far more equipment than I had time and purpose to use it for. 🙄 I'm much more interested in trying to figure out what I want to let go of these days. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted December 9, 2018 Share #39 Posted December 9, 2018 Ah @ramarren, I've probably remembered your opinion of the M10-D as making sense of a kind of an M10 with menus offsite and the EVF, not a replacement for the M-D. So, the grain on ISO above 3200 on the M-D is not bothering you? I found I can largely avoid it with the Summiluxes on the M60 but occasionally it shows. I'm treating it as slightly under/overexposed shots, as its digital film artifacts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 9, 2018 Share #40 Posted December 9, 2018 Well yes: the M-D (and its ME60 predecessor) are the ultra minimal digital M meme incarnate, where the M10-D is an M10-P which has had the LCD and control buttons removed for the sake of improved handling, for those who prefer that sort of thing. I only rarely use much higher than ISO 1600 on any camera, and usually when I do it's to increase the 'grain' (aka noise) and achieve the image softening and texture that provides, like I used to do with pushing film to extreme ASA values. So I can't say that the imaging qualities of the M-D have bothered me at all... As example, here's an M-D photo made at ISO 3200 @ f/4 @ 1/25 second with the Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5 lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I can't say that I find anything objectionable about the rendering qualities! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I can't say that I find anything objectionable about the rendering qualities! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/290828-long-live-the-m-d/?do=findComment&comment=3644628'>More sharing options...
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